Mobil 1 0w-20 contains more ESTERS?

[buster]

Mobil 1 states on there website that the 0w-20 cleans much better then there 5w/10w-30 grades. The pour point is also -71F. Does anyone think that this oil has a higher percentage of esters then the other Mobil grades? It would make sense to draw that conclusion because -71F and more cleaning abilities would be due to esters wouldn't it?

 

[JohnBrowning]

buster I am just guessing here but I would say no. This is why. A synthetic 20 weight should have no problem pumping at -71. The cleaning could be from increased solvency.

M1 is really anti-ester unless they have to use it. The whole point of SS was to develop an ester free oil.

Now if ever we see their 15W50 with a pumping temp of -71 I would change my tune!!

 

[buster]

Ok, that makes sense. SS does contain some esters though.

[ September 08, 2003, 06:55 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[sbc350gearhead]

I thought that since PAO causes seals to shrink.....that blenders had to use some esters to counteract that effect?

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
M1 is really anti-ester unless they have to use it. The whole point of SS was to develop an ester free oil.

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This is utter nonsense and I have yet to see it backed up with any hard data.

 

[JohnBrowning]

G-Man by ester free I am excludeing miscability. I thought this was hashed out some time ago. I thought Molakule presented some SAE papers stateing something to this effect. Heck who knows maybe I am remembering things wrong! I have been known to get things mixed up.

Another thought on the lack of esters is price point. You would also imagine that an oil full of esters would be shear stable. Have we detrermined if their 20W is shear stable yet?

You will also note that my opening line said I am just guessing !

G-Man II were is the evidence to prove that their is a signifacant amount of esters in the oils base stock. Your disbelief is no more definitive then my guess! Every time we see a response from Mobil their techs come back with statements like " Mobil-1 base stock is 100% PAO."

 

[G-MAN]

JB, actually, MolaKule has stated numerous times that Mobil is on the cutting edge of developing hi-tech esters and that these esters are used in the SuperSyn formula.

There have been two posters in the past who have been quite vocal about SuperSyn being all PAO, but neither one could back that up with any facts. One took the approach that the burden was on everyone else to prove he was wrong, which is ridiculous. He made the assertion, therefore the burden is on him to prove it.

Had Mobil been developing an esterless PCMO, there would have been some mention of it somewhere in the numerous lubrication trade journals. This would be a significant development, something that Mobil couldn't possibly keep so under wraps that not a word of it would leak out.

That being said, I have no doubt that the SuperSyn formula may indeed have less esters in the base oil blend than TriSyn did. The higher molecular weight SuperSyn PAO coupled with less esters would account for the higher pour points of all grades of SS across the board in comparison with TriSyn. But until someone can prove definitively otherwise, I'll never believe that Mobil 1 SuperSyn has no base oil esters.

 

[JohnBrowning]

G-Man II I stand corrected! I must of miss filed the other two posters ideas under my "MOLA" see also " Oil Gospel" file. Sometimes the mental file retrival system does not work right. I am aware that Mobile makes alot esters especialy for their Jet Turbine oil.

I have often woundered why they do not add more esters TMP/TME espscialy to their SS product line. For being so cutting edge we still have not seen it in this oil. The oil is the best value but not the best that oil technology has to offer! I am still waiting for the stickle down effect! Luckily they keep improveing their product!

I am holding out for Delvac 1 5W40 at Walmart for $3.79 a quart in 5 quart jug!!!

 

[John in the ATL]

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
I am aware that Mobil makes alot of esters especially for their Jet Turbine oil.

I have often wondered why they do not add more esters TMP/TME especially to their SS product line. For being so cutting edge we still have not seen it in this oil. The oil is the best value but not the best that oil technology has to offer! I am still waiting for the trickle down effect! Luckily they keep improving their product!

I am holding out for Delvac 1 5W40 at Walmart for $3.79 a quart in 5 quart jug!!!

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JB,

I agree with your statement. I believe the problem that ExxonMobil has to do with short term profits and managing earnings for Wall Street not their technical abilities. The other problem is with hitting the price point of the average synthetic oil consumer (versus oil fanatics on BITOG)as well as competing with US Castrol Syntec Group III garbage at $4.00.

If Mobil synthetic had more esters, wouldn't the price be closer to $6.00 a quart versus the current $4-5 per quart for SuperSyn? I don't think the mass market would pay $6.00.

 

[Scali62]

I know this is a little off topic but may be of intrest regarding Mobil 1 0-20. My truck has noisy lifter issue after oil changes & after first start up in the morning. I used to use Marval M oil & it helped but I've found that mixing with Mobil 1 0-20 really does the job so much better.
Worth every penny & I'm glad this 0 weight stuff was put on the market.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by John in the ATL:
If Mobil synthetic had more esters, wouldn't the price be closer to $6.00 a quart versus the current $4-5 per quart for SuperSyn?

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The short answer to your question is no. This has been hashed out on here before, but what a lot of people overlook when it comes to Mobil 1 is ExxonMobil's ability to control the price point because of (1) their size, and (2) the fact that they are not only the blender of Mobil 1, but they make all its constituent parts as well. No other oil company out there that sells a fully synthetic motor oil can make that claim. Amsoil and Redline are blenders only. They buy all their base oils as well as all the additives from other manufacturers. ExxonMobil doesn't. That fact alone enables them to undercut everyone else's price.

That being said, you'll note that the two grades of Mobil 1 (0w40 and 0w20) that do have "more esters" than the other grades of Mobil 1 DO cost more than those other grades.

 

[John in the ATL]

G Man,

I believe that you are discounting the fact that they have competitition from Castrol (BP), Royal Dutch Shell et al. and the fact that they are absolutely devoted to the bottom line as a public company versus a private blender like Redline or Amsoil.

Yes, Mobil can undercut the price of their oil or raise the price of PAO basestocks to a blender like Amsoil.

The analogy that I would use is GM has the capability to make superior cars throughout their model line but choose not to based on perceived profitability.

Mobil as a huge corporation with unlimited resources has the same capabilities as a GM. They make one of the best if not the best mass market synthetic oils on the market. Could it be better than Amsoil or Redline? Yes, if Mobil chose to produce the absolute best oil on the market.

 

[pscholte]

What a waste: to have the ABILITY but not the WILL.

 

[YZF150]

It is hardly a failure of will.

 

[pscholte]

I disagree. Whatever the reason given (market doesn't require it, market won't support it, etc), even if that reason is valid, if one has the ability and chooses not to exercise that ability, one does not have the will.

[ September 10, 2003, 10:18 PM: Message edited by: pscholte ]

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by John in the ATL:
Mobil as a huge corporation with unlimited resources has the same capabilities as a GM. They make one of the best if not the best mass market synthetic oils on the market. Could it be better than Amsoil or Redline? Yes, if Mobil chose to produce the absolute best oil on the market.

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I happen to think it IS better than Amsoil or Redline. The UOAs that have been posted of SuperSyn tend to back my opinion up, too.

 

[pscholte]

G-Man II,

I would like to see what Mobil could come up with if they decided they would produce an oil in the price range of Redline, Neo or Amsoil. Other industries have their super premium products, why not oil companies? I believe there WOULD be demand.

 

[YZF150]

Exactly. They do not lack institutional self-control to do otherwise (lack of will), they simply have no intention to do otherwise (they will that it would not be otherwise).

 

[pscholte]

They have the resources to be the unqualified best in their area of expertise and production and they choose not to apply them? While I like their oil, if that is the case, then I don't like their mindset. Given the economic situation at ExxonMobil, striving for unchallenged excellence and technical leadership should be what it is all about. They can afford to do this. (You KNOW the profit on this product would not be a concern for an ExxonMobil and that should not be the reason why they would produce it anyway.)

[ September 10, 2003, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: pscholte ]

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by pscholte:
I would like to see what Mobil could come up with if they decided they would produce an oil in the price range of Redline, Neo or Amsoil. Other industries have their super premium products, why not oil companies? I believe there WOULD be demand.

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ps, I don't buy into the idea that Redline, Neo, and Amsoil are "better" oils just because they cost more. The fact that these are small blenders who have to purchase everything that goes into their oils from vendors is the reason they have to charge more at retail than Mobil does for Mobil 1.