Mobi1

Primus · Mar 19, 2004

Without comments, just some more clue about Mobil1 composition:

http://www.mobil.co.jp/cts/pdt/mobil1.html

Those who cannot read in Japaneese

, please use:

http://babelfish.altavista.com/

Shannow · Mar 19, 2004

Primus,
interesting pick-up there.

Santo Fontana · Mar 19, 2004

"""

Mobil 1 10W-30 individual advanced based oil (PAO + Hydroprocessed) is the chemosynthesis oil which the various additives balance well is combined

Mobil 1 15W-50 designates PAO as the main component, it is the chemosynthesis oil which the various additives balance well is combined.

Mobil 1 5W-40 designates PAO as the main component, it is the chemosynthesis oil which the various additives balance well is combined.

Mobil 1 0W-30 designates PAO as the main component, it is the chemosynthesis oil which the various additives balance well is combined.

Mobil 1 0W-40 designates PAO as the main component, it is the chemosynthesis oil which the various additives balance well is combined.

It is the chemosynthesis oil where Mobil 1 5W-50 designated PAO as the main component, balance combined the various additives well, is located to the highest peak of the Mobil 1 series.

"""

Makes you wonder about M1 10w30 a little.

buster · Mar 19, 2004

Well, they all use PAO.

The 10w-30 is mainly PAO and Ester. If any grad would be more PAO, it's this one. Not sure what context or how accurate that is.

[ March 19, 2004, 11:24 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

Schmoe · Mar 19, 2004

yeah, so what the flock is in 5W-30?

buster · Mar 19, 2004

quote:

Is Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ a fully synthetic motor oil?
Yes, it is. To meet the demanding requirements of today's specifications (and our customers' expectations), Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ uses high-performance fluids, including polyalphaolefins (PAOs), along with a proprietary system of additives. Each Mobil 1 with SuperSyn™ viscosity grade uses a unique combination of synthetic fluids and selected additives in order to tailor the viscosity grade to its specific application

Primus, does this link that you posted answer your question on whether or not Mobil 1 is PAO? The above quote is off the US FAQ webpage.

This is from a Ferrari webpage:

quote:

As far as the dino/syn content of Mobil 1, I received this email from Mobil:

"All Mobil1 motor oils that have ever been introduced are fully synthetic motor oils and are not hydrocracked. Mobil1 motor oils only contain Group IV and V basestocks."

[ March 20, 2004, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: buster ]

Primus · Mar 19, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by buster:

Primus, does this link that you posted answer your question on whether or not Mobil 1 is PAO? The above quote is off the US FAQ webpage.

Buster,
Never asked such question. Quite the reverse, based on European experience I expressed my supposition that M1 SS 0W-30, 5W-30, 10W-30 and 15W-50 are mainly PAO based oils and the amount of esters are quite insignificant, if any. In the same post I also supposed that 5W-30, 10W-30 and 15W-50 contain hydrocracked oil in this or that volume depending on M1 weight.

Over this now I'm inclined to think that Mobil has also changed its 5W-50 from 100 % PAO to PAO + HC. I cannot find another explanation for the NOACK volatility growth from 7,5 % to 11 %.

But what nice metal cans ! Think I would forget about volatility.

buster · Mar 19, 2004

The volatility is up to 11%? Mobil 1 15w-50 is 5%. Any oil with a large spread will be a bit more volatile.

Primus, only problem is it makes no sense to use any Grp III with a PAO. Molekule stated this awhile back.

quote:

Base stocks can include PAO, esters, and alkylated naphtalenes and or alkylated benzenes. Remember, EM makes all three full synthetic base stoks. While they also make GRIII, these are mostly in their blends.

Why use a GRPIII with a GRPIV when a PAO has better all around specs than a GRPIII?

Using a GRPIII with a GRPIV requires more esters for solubility of the add pack, which raises cost, so one would NOT be gaining anything by going with a PAO/GRIII stock.

Chemistry/cost wise, it doesn't make sense.

Consider too, the backlash if it were found that Mobil was using GRPIII and calling it synthetic, after the little tussle with Castrol. It would be
as hypocritical as Amsoil's move to use GRPIII in their XL-series.

On the other hand, I do appreciate Amsoil making a demarcation of their fluids. Example, Amsoil XL-series versus their full PAO series.

Mobil 1 NOAK's
5w-30 = 9%
10w-30= 8%
15w-50= 5%
0w-30= ?
0w-40= 8.8%

[ March 20, 2004, 02:39 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

Primus · Mar 19, 2004

It's better to ask Mobil why it uses Group III and thereby ignores sharehoulders' need of cost reduction

buster · Mar 20, 2004

Primus, it doesn't make sense from a chemical standpoint to use ANY GRP III and if Mobil was caught doing this, their reputation would fall off the planet.

Shannow · Mar 20, 2004

buster,
but their Japanese website states PAO and "hydroprocessed" for the 10W-30.

quadrun1 · Mar 20, 2004

Perhaps Japanese M1 10W-30 is not the same as U.S. 10W-30?

Also, didn't GeorgeCLS say there are no esters in the SuperSyn formulation of Mobil 1?

Lubricious · Mar 20, 2004

After reading this, I would not buy the 10w-30 variety, especially since I've seen the 15w-50 at the same price.
There is certainly something very different about the 10w-30 formulation, since this is probably the most popular multigrade, makes it even more suspicious.

Primus · Mar 20, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by buster:
Primus, it doesn't make sense from a chemical standpoint to use ANY GRP III and if Mobil was caught doing this, their reputation would fall off the planet.

Let's not to overestimate. The use 20-30 % HC oil is not the same as to fully substitute PAO by HC. Would this step damage Mobil reputation ? May be, but only with a small group of crazy car enthusiasts like we are and may be more in the US because in Europe people have hardly heard about Castrol-Mobil case. Now the majority of European manufacturers use PAO & HC mixt and this did not have an impact on their sales. Moreover, some manufacturers like TotalFinalElf claim that new generation of hydrockracked oils outperform PAO from 90th in many areas and the use of 100 % PAO oils is justified in sport application only.

As for MolaKule statement, may be he is right, but this is a theory. In practice everything will depend on: 1). target - desired oil properties, 2). required GRP III volume and its actual cost, 3). required amount and cost of esters. As I know esters' content usually does not exceed 2-5 % in oils using PAO as a main component, at least in Europe.

Primus · Mar 20, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Lubricious:
After reading this, I would not buy the 10w-30 variety, especially since I've seen the 15w-50 at the same price.
There is certainly something very different about the 10w-30 formulation, since this is probably the most popular multigrade, makes it even more suspicious.

Think it would wrong if such decision is caused only by a presence of hydrocracked oil. To tell the truth I have more and more confidence in HC oils and would probably prefer HC & PAO mist (say at 70/30 ratio) in 10W-30, 10W-40 and 15W-40 grades over 100 % PAO in 0W-40 or 5W-40. But I would hardly accept 100 % HC in 5W-40 "fully synthetic oil" like Shell Helix Ultra even if viscosity modifiers from Shell are considered the best.

Santo Fontana · Mar 20, 2004

I was under the assumption that Castrol Syntec was a GIII + esters blend. They always refer to synthetic esters in their advertising.

Patman · Mar 20, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by buster:

Primus, only problem is it makes no sense to use any Grp III with a PAO. Molekule stated this awhile back.

Schaeffer Supreme 5w30 is about 75-80% group 3 and 20-25% PAO though and it works well.

Motorbike · Mar 20, 2004

Patman ,

You have your group and percentages off a bit

On another note:

On Mobil's USA website they say the 10w-30 SuperSyn can be used where the engine maker recommends or requires a 40wt engine oil .

Now , what other OTC 10cSt synthetic be it group III or whatever can make that claim and stick behind it ?

buster · Mar 20, 2004

I think something was "Lost in Translation".

It makes ZERO sense for Mobil 1 10w-30 to use any Grp III. It's all Pao/ester based. I have no doubts about this. It's only a 20pt. spread. Why even think of using a Group III? If someone can give me a scientific/chemical reason as to why they would use it, I'd consider it.

[ March 21, 2004, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

G-MAN · Mar 20, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by Motorbike:
Patman ,

You have your group and percentages off a bit

Actually, he doesn't. Bob posted on here last year that he got it directly from Schaeffer's head chemist: Their 5w30 blend is Group III and PAO. I pointed out at the time that the online spec sheets says Group II/PAO and Bob responded that the spec sheet needs updating and that the Group III/PAO is their newest formulation.

Mobi1

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