MMT Issues....

[cweed]

I wish I had known of this place sooner! Anyway, I went on a little trip last weekend and the gas station attendant accidentally put in 1/2 tank of 87 in my car, as opposed to 93. Now, having my computer programmed to run higher timing, I needed the high octane, especially since i had some extra weight in the car and had to climb some hills putting more load on the car.... So, having 1/2 tank of 93 and 1/2 of 87 I decided to go to the local shop and get some octane booster, i got 4 bottles of some stp or something like that containing "maximum allowable amount of MMT" in each bottle. I put all those in at the same time knowing these things usually only raise the octane a tiny bit. The car ran great after them, even better than regular! i was really surprised, then I read the posts on here about MMT being bad, leaving some red deposits on the plugs, etc. Well, I'm not very happy about my stupid decision to put those 4 bottles in at the same time, do you guys think this will be bad for my engine? whats the best way to drive out the rest of it? I still have quite a bit of it left in the tank....

[ May 20, 2004, 09:48 AM: Message edited by: cweed ]

 

[MolaKule]

First, MMT is a controversial subject and it has been equivically proven that MMT harms anything.

Now inferential data from UOA's "suggest" that MMT's might increase some bearing wear slightly, but the case is still in deliberation.

As for burning it out, just keep tank filled.

 

[cweed]

yikes, didnt know about it allegedly causing increased bearing wear :-( now im even more saddened by my stupidity.... is driving on the highway, keeping lead foot off throttle, and changing oil right after its gone going to help?

or should i just suck this stuff out of the tank and fill up with some of my good old 93? or am i just being paranoid here?

 

[Chris Fucik]

If enough of it is used, it can degrade your O2 sensor and catalytic, but the tiny ammounts in street legal octane boosters aren't going to harm anything for a one-time use, even four bottles worth.

It you were using something like Torco Unleaded Race Gas Concentrate, which has fairly high concentrations of the stuff, you'd likely wreck your O2 sensor and cat after a while, but that's about it. I've never heard of any increased bearing wear as a result.

In short, I wouldn't freak out over what's already in your tank.

 

[GT Mike]

I trashed a set of plugs in my '01 Jeep using 104+ racing formula one night when I thought it might help me at the track. The combination of the MMT and sudden WOT bursts caused the stuff to actually glaze on the plugs rather than just leaving the powdery rusty residue it normally does.

Hi Chris!

 

[MolaKule]

quote:

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First, MMT is a controversial subject and it has been equivically proven that MMT harms anything.

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Should have read:

First, MMT is a controversial subject and it has NOT been unequivically proven that MMT harms anything.


Ethyl Corp and the Canadian government have a running feud over MMT in gasoline.

Ethyl claims that after 25 years of use no problems have been created either mechanically or environmentally by the use of MMT.

 

[cweed]

Is the powdery substance at all harmful to the engine? aside from ruining the plugs and maybe damaging o2's and cats?

 

[Patman]

I don't think the MMT in our fuel up here is hurting my engine wear at all. Both of my cars are getting good wear in the UOAs, both very low bearing wear especially. You can clearly see the high manganese in my reports though, my last UOA showed 92ppm of manganese in 3000 miles, the one before that showed 140ppm in 6200 miles. But lead was under 3ppm in both reports.

 

[MolaKule]

Not in the amounts available Over the Counter, like Outlaw etc.

 

[cweed]

Just ran through the tank, nothing abnormal so I'm not going to worry about it.

Patman, do all the gas stations up there in CA have MMT in their fuel?

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by cweed:
Just ran through the tank, nothing abnormal so I'm not going to worry about it.

Patman, do all the gas stations up there in CA have MMT in their fuel?

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Yep, it still hasn't been outlawed up here, so all of them still use it.

 

[cweed]

Oh.... from what I understood Mike said is that it settles on the plugs in a powdery rusty form after burning, thats the "stuff" i was concerned about.

 

[MolaKule]

quote:

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Is the powdery substance at all harmful to the engine? aside from ruining the plugs and maybe damaging o2's and cats?

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It is not in a powdery form. It is in solution, similar to ZDDP, Moly Dithio carbamate, and other additives.

 

[novadude]

Is MMT a TEL replacement? Will it act as a UCL and prevent exhaust valve recession?

 

[Dr. T]

Patman, I thought that Sunoco's schtick was "highest octane under the sun" with their 94 and their website claims "no MMT" to achieve it because they are the most "environmentally friendly" fuel...but, I will check their website again. Do you know anything about this claim?

 

[MolaKule]

quote:

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Oh.... from what I understood Mike said is that it settles on the plugs in a powdery rusty form after burning, thats the "stuff" i was concerned about.

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Sorry. Yes, during combustion the Manganese metal evaporates to coat plug insulators and other materials (such as valve faces and seats) with a very this film of same.

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dr. T:
Patman, I thought that Sunoco's schtick was "highest octane under the sun" with their 94 and their website claims "no MMT" to achieve it because they are the most "environmentally friendly" fuel...but, I will check their website again. Do you know anything about this claim?

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I just checked their site and you're right, they do claim their Ultra 94 uses no MMT. But they make no mention of their other grades being MMTless though.

What sucks about Ultra 94 is that even though it's supposedly helps you get lower emissions, it also causes most people to lose about 10% gas mileage, so in reality it's probably not helping, since you're burning more fuel!

 

[Dr. T]

Yeah, I've never heard that. I get the highest fuel economy performance with 94 and so that's all I use. Financially, it's a wash because of this fact. Even though my car spec's 91.

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dr. T:
Yeah, I've never heard that. I get the highest fuel economy performance with 94 and so that's all I use. Financially, it's a wash because of this fact. Even though my car spec's 91.

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You get better fuel economy with Sunoco 94? You're the only one that I've heard say this. The guy's in my f-body club (with both LS1s and LT1s) say they get worse mileage with Sunoco 94 (about 2MPG less) and in my old Grand Prix club they noticed the same thing.

 

[Dr. T]

Yup...not only that, but I can tell the performance (response) difference when a certain Sunoco is BS'ing the grade and has mixed the 94 with others. There are certain Sunoco's I won't fill up at and I avoid the one's with mixed pumps.

Over what do the guys get less fuel economy? Sunoco's 92?