Mineral, group 3,4 or 5?

[Tikka]

Hi.
Did not want to take another post off topic, so i started this one.

I read many forum members write things like 'this oil is a group 3' or 'that oil is a group 4'.

My question is, how on earth do you know? Nothing is written on the bottle and when i asked one company they just replied 'proprietary information'.

Phrases such as 'fully synthetic' just means group 3 or above i presume.

Sorry if it is a dumb thing to ask.

 

[ka9mnx]

Good question. Waiting for the answers...

 

[simple_gifts]

material safety data sheets give the clue i believe.

 

[skyactiv]

You can decode it in a SDS or MSDS.

This Castrol 0W40 available in the UK has PAO in the base oil. Who knows exactley how much.

https://msdspds.castrol.com/ussds/amersdsf.nsf/Files/E8479143FA561E78802586DC0052B523/$File/2739317.pdf

Decoded to PAO here: https://echa.europa.eu/registration-dossier/-/registered-dossier/14722/12

 

[OVERKILL]

As noted by @simple_gifts we use the MSDS sheets to give us an EXTREMELY ROUGH idea of what the range of percentages are for some of the base oils featured in the blend in a given product. Sometimes the blender doesn't give you much if any info, sometimes they give you a reasonably narrow range (like Mobil) that is a bit more detailed in nature.

 

[Tikka]

Hi Lads.
To be brutally honest i am not clever enough to decypher a MSDS sheet. Shame the manufacturers could not just give their customers this basic information.

 

[yowps3]

The better the performance of parameters such as pour point, flash point & NOACK often the better the base oil is.

 

[simple_gifts]

Hi Lads.
To be brutally honest i am not clever enough to decypher a MSDS sheet. Shame the manufacturers could not just give their customers this basic information.

Literally, no one cares who is purchasing oil. The oil performs to a given specification, VW504, VW507, API SP etc; which is what people should concern themselves with and upon which choices should be made.

Not sure why people believe a mfg needs to reveal anything about how a specification is met. Simply put, it is their intellectual property.

 

[kschachn]

The better the performance of parameters such as pour point, flash point & NOACK often the better the base oil is.

Those are just about the last three things I care about when purchasing an oil. Probably because I have such a low interest in base stock composition.

 

[kschachn]

Hi Lads.
To be brutally honest i am not clever enough to decypher a MSDS sheet. Shame the manufacturers could not just give their customers this basic information.

Shame? That’s not the important part of an oil’s properties. What’s really a shame are they blenders that obfuscate their approvals, certifications and licenses. I think that’s a much bigger shame.

To be equally brutally honest, if you can’t decipher an SDS then why do you consider yourself capable of predicting the future performance of an oil based on a document that isn’t even directly related to nor intended to illustrate performance properties?

 

[930.engineering]

Those are just about the last three things I care about when purchasing an oil. Probably because I have such a low interest in base stock composition.

The point isn't if you care about (everyone here knows it, as you state it everyday),
yowps3's point has been that watching pour point, flash point and Noack is giving
a hint about base stock, and that's true.

 

[kschachn]

The point isn't if you care about (everyone here knows it, as you state it everyday),
yowps3's point has been that watching pour point, flash point and Noack is giving
a hint about base stock, and that's true.

You know so much for being new.

But yes they can give an indication towards base stocks I agree. My comment was probably out of place.

 

[yowps3]

Those are just about the last three things I care about when purchasing an oil. Probably because I have such a low interest in base stock composition.

Base oil makes circa 80% of the finished product..

 

[kschachn]

Base oil makes circa 80% of the finished product..

Yes.

 

[ka9mnx]

Base oil makes circa 80% of the finished product..

The other 20% is what matters.

 

[MolaKule]

Hi Lads.
To be brutally honest i am not clever enough to decypher a MSDS sheet. Shame the manufacturers could not just give their customers this basic information.

Oil manufacturers are not required to publicly state their complete formulations, as the reading of prior posts would have made clear.

Here are some CAS numbers that you may find in SDS's.

However, and to be realistic, if you do not have an organic chemistry or a petroleum engineering background it will mean very little to you.

A formulated oil is a balanced mix of various base oil groups and of various base oil viscosities, with DI additives to make a finished lubricant for a specific application.

Read and study your car's Operating Manual and attempt to match up the specifications and viscosity grade with an oil from your local auto parts supplier.

 

[Tikka]

I asked the question because i find it interesting and for no other reason really.

 

[DGXR]

Here is an article describing Group 1 through Group 5 base oils: Base Oil Groups Explained
My $0.02: Performance of the finished lubricant (base + additives) is what matters in the real world. People get hung up on Group 3/4/5 base content, PAO vs Ester, blah blah, good grief. There are lots of "full synthetic" group 3 oils that provide amazing performance, but often they get bashed and poo-pooed by the "true synthetic" snobs. Here's the question: does the oil meet the specification required by your vehicle manufacturer?

 

[MolaKule]

Here is another article:

A Review of Mineral and Synthetic Base Oils

A Review of Mineral and Synthetic Base Oils - Bob is the Oil Guy

 

[Tikka]

Thank you for the replies and links guys.

Like i said earlier. My original question was based purely out of curiosity. I know very little about engine oils, but nonetheless find the subject very interesting. I have no end goal other than to try learn a little.

DGXR.
You make a fair point. 'People get hung up on Group 3/4/5 base content'. If i saw two oils that both had say MB229.51 approvals and one 'boasted' it was PAO or Ester i would probably think the latter was somehow better.