Mileage Interval Until Synthetic Use

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21
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San Ramon, CA, USA
Hello All --- presently in the break-in of a new Honda Sabre Vt1800. I am familiar with the preference to use a petro-based oil for breakin to allow a bit more abrasion for smoothing new rough parts. But at what point do most switch over to synthetic for the rest of the engine life?? Has any new info on this process surfaced in the last couple of years? I know many different opinions used to float around on the forum here ---- what say?? Thanks for observations and any data. Cheers --- Bob grin2
 
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Sta Catarina, Br
Honda and Ford make engine practically without metal shavings, since the 90's. You can go 5k ez on FF, unless you drive like aunt Minnie and only do grocery shop.
 
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Originally Posted By: KD0AXS
You can use synthetic at any time. Many engines ship from the factory with synthetic oil in them.
+1 I put synthetic in mine at first oil change at 600 miles. No idea what it came with from the factory, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was synthetic, too.
 

apollomaker

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San Ramon, CA, USA
Thanks to all for the comments and info. I recall reading about many of the auto makers filling with syn at production time. But I too believe in the effects of the additive formulations. Also for high performing engines, I would keep the OCI shorter than "usual". Anyway, thanks again for the tips. grin2
 
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Considering many "synthetic" oils sold in this nation are only synthetic in the USA (maybe North America) because it is just Group III which is made from crude oil I would not worry even if it was not an old wives tale. My bike came from the factory with synthetic Castrol in the sump....they even put a nice sticker on my engine that stated it as a fact. My factory fill OCI was 500 miles, after that it is 6,000. I would say 500 miles is plenty of time to break in a new engine. Really with modern engine manufacturing precision there is not nearly the run in issues of the distance past.
 
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For the factory fill and first OCI, follow the owners manual. Everything else is just internet myth. You can switch to synthetic at the first change if you want.
 

apollomaker

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San Ramon, CA, USA
Originally Posted By: Click
Eric Buell racing bikes come from their factory with Amsoil 20w-50 in them.
IIRC(quite a while ago) that originally Amsoil was a type IV syn(?). After more study, it appears that it, like most USA-based syns, are type III. So does that make Amsoil just an overpriced type III? Or is there more to the equation? Thanks --- Bob confused
 
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Originally Posted By: apollomaker
Originally Posted By: Click
Eric Buell racing bikes come from their factory with Amsoil 20w-50 in them.
IIRC(quite a while ago) that originally Amsoil was a type IV syn(?). After more study, it appears that it, like most USA-based syns, are type III. So does that make Amsoil just an overpriced type III? Or is there more to the equation? Thanks --- Bob confused
Maybe you're referring to the original marketing by Amsoil, where they heavily pushed the PAO angle. The reality is, they still needed to balance out the negative effects of the PAO basestock, with something else to save the engine seals(probably group V basestock). I don't know where you're getting your information from, but from what I've seen of Amsoil MC oil it's got plenty of the good stuff in it. They did reformulate it in 2005 and actually made it much better in terms of shear stability when they changed its name to MCV for the 20w-50 grade, and MCF for the 10w-40 grade. You can't get the sort of numbers out of an oil that the Amsoil has, with too much group III basestock in it. I'll concede that it's probably got some group III type oil in small amounts, due to the possibility of it being present as a carrier for additives. Other than that, I believe it's still predominately a mix of group IV and group V oil basestock. The specifications sort of speak for themselves.
 

apollomaker

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Quote:
I'll concede that it's probably got some group III type oil in small amounts, due to the possibility of it being present as a carrier for additives. Other than that, I believe it's still predominately a mix of group IV and group V oil basestock. The specifications sort of speak for themselves.
Hello Ducman -- and thanks for the feedback. Yes, I have been away from tracking what Amsoil has been doing with their product and hence my question. It would sure be interesting to know exactly what the recipe is now. Most oil/grease product content is held proprietary for obvious reasons. One thing that has been more recent is the hyping of esters in MC oils. While they add excellent load-carrying capability, they can/do react with polymeric materials and that kinda worries me a bit. Not sure about Amsoil but I have been hesitant to use any ester-loaded MC oil. Autos are different due to the need to swell seal materials to stop leaks smirk Not real sure how far this has "creeped" into MC oils -- will keep snooping a bit. Thanks again for the great update on Amsoil. -- Bob grin2
 
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How do you know if break is done??? take a compression test... if your engine shows factory compression then break in is complete... if your engine shows less than factory compression then more break in is require... how long you take is up to you... you can do it quickly in accordance with the Honda Factory engineers... or do it slowly in accordance with the owners manual... the difference being the lawyers prefer you take it easy whereas the engineers prefer you do it quickly...
 

apollomaker

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San Ramon, CA, USA
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
According to this Amsoil video their base stock is Mobil 1 and its been that way for years... http://www.youtube.com/embed/E_iN_IJpSIU
I am quite familiar with what he is actually saying. For background, Mobil Oil is one of the world's largest producers of PURE PAO oil stocks of various types and viscosities. What he is saying is that AMSOIL buys its RAW STOCK base oil (not formulated) from Mobil and THEN formulates it into their products. As most producers of synthetic lubricants do. A further clue as to some of what actually ends up in the AMSOIL product is to read the MSDS (material safety data sheet) information on each lubricant of interest. Materials which can represent a hazard to the end user are usually mentioned and clues as to oil type, certain additives, etc. can be found there. But of course, never the entire recipe. I worked for a long time in the synthetic lubricant industry and am familiar with the process, procurement streams, and final product definition processes. What he is saying in regards to the sourcing of BASE STOCK is accurate. Thanks for the video!!! grin2
 
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Florida /Texas
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Considering many "synthetic" oils sold in this nation are only synthetic in the USA (maybe North America) because it is just Group III which is made from crude oil I would not worry even if it was not an old wives tale. My bike came from the factory with synthetic Castrol in the sump....they even put a nice sticker on my engine that stated it as a fact. My factory fill OCI was 500 miles, after that it is 6,000. I would say 500 miles is plenty of time to break in a new engine. Really with modern engine manufacturing precision there is not nearly the run in issues of the distance past.
You've noticed too, how easily people have become brain washed with the synthetic term, mobil1 or any of the other group 3 so called synthetics should work just like dino oil non synthetic labled.
 
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Actually the brainwashing goes both ways.
Originally Posted By: Mackelroy
Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Considering many "synthetic" oils sold in this nation are only synthetic in the USA (maybe North America) because it is just Group III which is made from crude oil I would not worry even if it was not an old wives tale. My bike came from the factory with synthetic Castrol in the sump....they even put a nice sticker on my engine that stated it as a fact. My factory fill OCI was 500 miles, after that it is 6,000. I would say 500 miles is plenty of time to break in a new engine. Really with modern engine manufacturing precision there is not nearly the run in issues of the distance past.
You've noticed too, how easily people have become brain washed with the synthetic term, mobil1 or any of the other group 3 so called synthetics should work just like dino oil non synthetic labled.
 
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