We share a similar opinion of them.
Michelin Pilots Peeling Tread at 25K
- Thread starter Wolfshead
- Start date
I wish I understood the Michelin hate. I understand many of you apparently were shafted by Michelin.
Here's my sermon for the day...
You need to purchase your tires from a reputable dealer where you can speak face to face with the owner. EVERY problem I have had
with tires in my family (extended family) has been resolved between my dealer and Michelin corp. AND...all 12 vehicles I take care of have
Michelins on them. I have had several problems in the last 30 years but I have ALWAYS been happy with how I was treated by Michelin Corp
and my dealer.
I even had some mismatched Michelin tires on my LS430 when I bought it. I called Michelin and they actually replaced two of my tires so they would match the others. I was charged a slight amount for the wear and I was tickled. I don't think that would not have happened at a big box store or another tire manufacturer.
I have "never" had any of my tires last as long as the mileage warranty guarantees. I love getting a credit from Michelin for the mileage
they were short. I don't care if they only go 1/2 the mileage, Michelin reimburses me for 1/2 the price. And, that money can go to the purchase of
any other brand of tires. Actually, I like them to wear out sooner as I get newer tires more often.
You need to find a top notch tire dealer.
Here's my sermon for the day...
You need to purchase your tires from a reputable dealer where you can speak face to face with the owner. EVERY problem I have had
with tires in my family (extended family) has been resolved between my dealer and Michelin corp. AND...all 12 vehicles I take care of have
Michelins on them. I have had several problems in the last 30 years but I have ALWAYS been happy with how I was treated by Michelin Corp
and my dealer.
I even had some mismatched Michelin tires on my LS430 when I bought it. I called Michelin and they actually replaced two of my tires so they would match the others. I was charged a slight amount for the wear and I was tickled. I don't think that would not have happened at a big box store or another tire manufacturer.
I have "never" had any of my tires last as long as the mileage warranty guarantees. I love getting a credit from Michelin for the mileage
they were short. I don't care if they only go 1/2 the mileage, Michelin reimburses me for 1/2 the price. And, that money can go to the purchase of
any other brand of tires. Actually, I like them to wear out sooner as I get newer tires more often.
You need to find a top notch tire dealer.
Or just...stop using the company that believes-with religious fervor-that they NEVER made a bad tire, it's your fault, shut up and buy another set. They handled the XRV problems about as badly as possible...and after the way they reamed my co-workers, not a chance.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Nobody is forcing you to buy them, that's the great thing about having a choice.
Plenty of us have experienced absolutely top-shelf performance from a variety of Michelin products and continue to purchase them for that reason. Your bloviation about how Michelin killed your first born and then defecated on the ashes isn't in any way going to dissuade those of us who have had positive experiences from buying that brand of tires again, so telling those that are already satisfied to stop patronizing the brand because you don't like them is simply an exercise in futility and the elevation of your blood pressure. It won't change anybody's mind, and just makes you more bitter through that exercise.
I can count on one hand the number of people on BITOG who vocally dislike Michelin. That's a pretty small group. If we were to create a poll as to favourite tire brands, Michelin would likely top the list.
Brand name tires on a new car are of lessor quality than the same tire aftermarket. Lowest bidder with no warranty. I had Goodyear Eagle GT's on a new car get out of round and belt slippage. A Goodyear factory store explained it to me and replaced the tires for a small pro rated fee. The replacement tires lasted a long time like they were supposed to. The Michelins on my truck are 8 yrs old and small chunks are coming out....from old age.
25,000 miles out of a high performance tire, that is eight years old. Not too shabby. Just go buy you some new tires and be done with it.
I put a set of Michelin’s on my Volt, bad wear and one tire split in the center with 5/32 of tread left (undulation/bad belt)
My OEM Goodyear’s lasted much longer, needless to say I likely won’t put on another set of the current generation of Michelin’s, doesn’t help they are expensive either.
That can happen with any tire brand. My F-150 came with Michelin tires and so far, they perform just fine. Will I replace them with the same tire? Probably not. There are other brands out there that are just as good and can be had for a lower cost. Another urban legend, that I have seen on this thread, is the OEM tires that come on new cars are substandard to replacement tires. They are the same tires that can be purchased at any authorized retailer.
How many drums of KoolAid fit in your car?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Zero. How's the gas mileage driving around with all the weight of that mental baggage? Must be a pretty substantial hit, probably putting you over the weight limit, as you blew past the exit for reasonable and objective and appear to have crashed into the bog of jaded and bitter.
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IIRC didn't you put Toyo's on a vehicle fairly recently?
Not that it matters, I just thought I remembered that.
This is me, at the moment anyways, going back to ~1994. It's a small fleet, but Pilot Sport, PS2, PSS and PS4S I've owned have been unquestionably amazing (as they should be for the price). Tried to save some bucks and use a few less expensive and supposedly better reviewed non-Michelin options on a Sienna with unpleasant results (poor grip, poor wear, chunking) and the Latitudes that ended up going on were fabulous (for that vehicle and uses) in terms of ride, grip, smoothness, balancing and wear.
As the **** (fastidious) guy who needs road force balancing and whatnot for my vehicles, I've generally found Michelin summer or all seasons to require less weight to balance, started more round and stayed more round (improved with miles, in fact) than other brands. I did not observe that with Michelin winter tires, though, with several "in the family" requiring a LOT of weight even to pass a simple balance.
Not saying they can never do any wrong, or they have never treated anyone badly, but I'll almost certainly continue being a customer unless I see some kind of product quality/performance degradation that affects me.
As someone who worked in the tire industry for about a decade, and someone who has purchased approximately a dozen sets of tires from about eight or nine large brands, Michelin build consistently the best performing and best quality tires out of any brand - Full stop. They are expensive, but typically they are the best, especially if you consider things like how well they maintain balance, how quiet they remain, how long they last.
Now whether you want or need the best is another story. Sometimes the extra ~20% over other respectable brands is not worth it for the purchaser, and that's fine too.
It is interesting how several of us have had the same cracking/chunking issues, I assumed mine (bfg sport comp 2) was from autocross and over heating but it seems normally driven cars have had the same issues. That said, my tires still actually gripped pretty well down at the wear bars, even with the chunking but its not a great way for a tire, to retire...
Anyways like any purchase, the brands overall quality doesn't really matter when you are buying a specific model of tire. Heck, even different sizes of the same model come from different countries. I love Michelin xice snow tires but I doubt I'll ever buy their summer tires.
The sport comp 2 is the only summer performance Michelin tire I've owned, but for autocross I have had toyo, sumitomo, kumho, and older yokohama's and they all just wore out(some toyo RA1's only gave up when they were into the belts), no chunking from "old age" at 6 years old in DD duty.
In my experience the japanese brand tires do last, while looking and working half decent. If you are going to put on low miles on a tire and want it to work 8 years from now, I'd research some yokohama, toyo, or bridgestone tires. If you want maximum grip go to the autocross forums, the latest and greatest tire info will be found there.
Anyways like any purchase, the brands overall quality doesn't really matter when you are buying a specific model of tire. Heck, even different sizes of the same model come from different countries. I love Michelin xice snow tires but I doubt I'll ever buy their summer tires.
The sport comp 2 is the only summer performance Michelin tire I've owned, but for autocross I have had toyo, sumitomo, kumho, and older yokohama's and they all just wore out(some toyo RA1's only gave up when they were into the belts), no chunking from "old age" at 6 years old in DD duty.
In my experience the japanese brand tires do last, while looking and working half decent. If you are going to put on low miles on a tire and want it to work 8 years from now, I'd research some yokohama, toyo, or bridgestone tires. If you want maximum grip go to the autocross forums, the latest and greatest tire info will be found there.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Your experience mirrors mine. I've owned Yokohama, Toyo (three different sets), Goodyear, Mickey Thompson, BF Goodrich, Uniroyal, Hankook, Bridgestone and Pirelli. Probably the best OEM tires I've owned, in terms of traction and noise are the Pirelli's that came on the Jeep, but they are three season and wear quickly.
I put PSS's on my M5, which replaced a set of Toyo's and the difference was night and day. Replaced the tires that came on my wife's Charger (think they were Uniroyal?, not OEM) with Pilot Sport A/S 3+ and they were a massive upgrade in terms of reduced noise, smoothness, wet traction...etc. Markedly better than the stock GoodYear Eagle RS-A's that came on my SRT (Charger) in every possible way.
Our Expedition came with GoodYear Silent Armour on it and they were surprisingly good, particularly in snow. Not great on ice though. I replaced those with the LTX M/S, wore those out and replaced them with the M/S2's. The LTX has consistently been the best all season I've ever used on ice by a massive margin. I drove through that huge ice storm we had quite a few years ago now to my parent's place on the NB/NS border in the Expedition on the fresh M/S2's and I had a solid 8" of ice built up on the top of the truck by the time I got there. I have never seen so many vehicles off the road. That trip really impressed on me just how good those tires were.
Ran the Latitude Xice Xi-2 on our Durango and they were extremely good on ice, which, as you can probably tell, is my primary concern with respect to winter driving. We liked them so much we bought a set for our EcoDiesel when we had it, and then bought another set for our current 1500. I would have them on the Jeep but alas, Michelin doesn't make them in that size, so I have Hankook iPike's, which are extremely good in deep snow and absolutely awful on ice. They have very poor lateral grip as well, so they push.
O/T: It's amazing just how bad some OEM tires are, regardless of brand. The OE tires on my wife's truck are horrific in the wet, they are GoodYear Eagle Touring and that's a common critique. The amazing thing is that sometimes the cost of the OE replacements is completely out to lunch. The All Season tires that came on my '16 SRT GC were insanely expensive to replace, as are the current ones on my 2020. Both are Pirelli. The A/S tires were quite unremarkable and wore surprisingly fast, definitely didn't warrant the price. Screenshot of the costs (so I don't further pollute this thread) can be found here:
Michelin finally makes a tire for my SRT!
About bloody time!!! Michelin has finally produced a P295/45ZR/20 and it is in the form of the Pilot Sport A/S3+: Link to tire on TireRack Comically, these are roughly half the price of the Pirelli run-flats it currently wears, and which don't have a heck of a lot left in them. May end up...
bobistheoilguy.com
It's not a high performance tire. It's a rather mediocre grand touring tire.
300 Treadwear
A Traction
A Temperature
That’s pretty close to a high performance tire. A 300 Treadwear rating means a soft rubber compound and a very low mileage expectation. I certainly wouldn’t classify it as a grand touring tire.
As a tire engineer, the thing that jumps out at me is that these are OE tires. OE tires are (more or less) designed by the vehicle manufacturer - that is the performance goals are set by the vehicle manufacturer and their goals tend to be very much fuel economy oriented. That sometimes means some severe compromise in rubber compounding. So it doesn't surprise me that even Michelin would have this kind of trouble! (For reference, the company I worked for had the same sort of problems with some of its OE tires - never with its aftermarket cousins.)
I have news for you!
"A 300 Treadwear rating" means that the tire lasted at least 3x the reference tire.
It may have been exact 3 or it could have been 3.5 or 5. Depending on how the tire manufacturer wanted to "position" the tire in their lineup. It is illegal to overstate UTQG but nothing prevents manufacturer to understate it. Just to make it look more sporty, for example.
My 2005 Subaru Legacy GT had mediocore Bridgestone Potenza RE92 with 140 treadware rating (as far as I remember) that lasted into 40K. They were not as high performance as their treadware rating would make you believe.
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