Michelin Defender treadlife issue, again

[Balrog006]

Originally Posted By: khittner
Does anyone really get 90K miles out of a set of Defenders? I get 60K out of my sets, and I'm pretty OCD about tire-related maintenance. Because of this, I get a nice proration out of local DT shop, and slap on another set for 2/3 of the usual asking price (before whatever rebates are then available). Otherwise, the Defenders serve adequately.


I got 80-90K out of two sets of Latitude Tour’s on my CRV, now the current Defenders (which are 65K warranted on a SUV) have something like 55K+ and are measuring 7/32 or so-and I’m poor at tire rotation frequency....

 

[scion_xb]

2005 Scion xB, 45000 miles on Defenders...nil wear. Weight 2450 lb!

 

[NYEngineer]

I've got a set on my Suburban going on two years now. They're still showing way more tread than any other tires I've had on it in the past at this point. I keep em at 35 psi and I try my best to keep em rotated every 6000 miles.

 

[Smokescreen]

I have put many different makes of tire on my Corolla in its 240miles of service....by a far margin Michelin Defenders wore and performed the worst of all of them...even worse than the cheep cr@ppy OE tires.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted By: WhyMe
Originally Posted By: nthach
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Sounds like tire pressure should be bumped up.

I've kept the air pressure at 35-37PSI. There is a slow leak from one tire I'm having Costco figure out.

I've showed my dad how to use a pressure gauge but I'm not sure if he's complying.


have them check the bead seal and if needed slap on some bead sealer. this fixed the leak on my Subaru

Turned out that tire leak was a gash in the shoulder that looked innoculous - Costco ended up having to pro-rate that tire and installed their version of the Defender T+H.

This was the front pair that tipped off Firestone to a potential sale.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Sounds like tire pressure should be bumped up.

+1
I figured out after several worn-out sets of tires, and a lot of discussion on the Sienna forum, that the tire pressure Toyota specifies for the Sienna is FAR too low for the weight of the van, particularly on the front. My tire wear was GREATLY improved by simply bumping the tire pressure up to 40 psi from the Toyota recommended 35 psi. After analyzing the wear on my last set of tires, I decided to run them at 42 psi instead, which is what the consensus opinion of numerous members on the Sienna forum was to achieve optimum tire wear. That seems to be the correct tire pressure given the van's weight because at 42 psi I am now getting completely even wear across the tread, at last. Also, the tires absolutely must be rotated front-to-rear every 6k miles because the tires wear at least 2x faster on the front than on the rear. The increased tire pressure has also decreased the emergency braking stopping distance and improved emergency handling as well. The cost is a firmer/busier ride quality.

 

[CKN]

Yep-there are Michelin "Defenders" on this forum

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted By: wag123
I decided to run them at 42 psi instead, which is what the consensus opinion of numerous members on the Sienna forum was to achieve optimum tire wear. That seems to be the correct tire pressure given the van's weight because at 42 psi I am now getting completely even wear across the tread, at last. Also, the tires absolutely must be rotated front-to-rear every 6k miles because the tires wear at least 2x faster on the front than on the rear. The increased tire pressure has also decreased the emergency braking stopping distance and improved emergency handling as well. The cost is a firmer/busier ride quality.

For now, it's my parents who treat the Sienna as a daily driver - but I think setting the PSI that high might result in the center tread wearing out. But then again, a Sienna is pretty [censored] heavy.

As for ride quality, their van needs shocks but I'll wait for the next Monroe or KYB promo. I have Moog's spherical compliance bearings(they call it a "bushing" but it's really a ball and socket bearing) so ride quality took a tiny hit.

Michelin Defenders aren't known for a "cush" ride like a Goodyear is.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted By: nthach
For now, it's my parents who treat the Sienna as a daily driver - but I think setting the PSI that high might result in the center tread wearing out. But then again, a Sienna is pretty [censored] heavy.

Actually, the tires on my Sienna were still wearing a little more on the inner and outer edges at 40 psi (indicating under inflation) which is why I went to 42 psi. I am finally getting even tire wear across the tread at 42 psi. Many other Sienna owners in the Sienna forum reported the same result. It is the front tires on the Sienna that are problematic which is why they need to be rotated front-to-rear regularly.
My Sienna LE FWD weighs in at almost 4800 lbs with 1/2 tank of gas and my fat A$$ sitting in it, 60% of which is on the front tires. A Limited with a full tank of gas will easily break 5000 lbs and AWD adds a couple hundred more pounds. A light-weight it is NOT! BTW, my gas mileage also improved by increasing the tire pressure. I am amazed by the gas mileage that I get considering the fact that it is so heavy and un-aerodynamic, over 27 mpg on one leg of a recent trip.

 

[nthach]

The other day ago, I upped the pressures on the Sienna to 40 all around - my dad doesn't check the tire pressure and my mom was wondering why she's seeing a drop in MPG. So far, so good but I will check again next week.

My mom was wondering why Costco and Michelin and not Yokohamas from America's Tire - I said it was logistics. Costco is closer, and there isn't a America's Tire within 10 miles of them or me. Somehow my parents are loyal to Yokohama, probably from their first car(a Toyota Cressida) that came with Yokos as OE. I think the next set of tires will be Michelin X Tour A/S from Costco as part of a mileage claim. If not, I'll look into the BITOG favorite General Altimax RT43s or the Yoko Avid Touring/YK740 from DT/America's.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Bought RT43s (T rated) for my daughter's Impreza as true all seasons, she is a student and will not have to go to class on the worst snow days (and she is also about a mile from campus now). Those tires are a very good match for that application as her car is underpowered and she does not seem to be into driving for fun, anyway.

I bought versions with a higher speed rating (H or V???) for my FXT and I have not been too crazy about them. I run snows in winter time so I only need my all season "summer" tires to get me through surprise fall or spring storms. I had Goodyear Eagle Sport A/S tires before and found them to be quite fun for zipping around as well as good enough in 2" of snow...the RT43s are really no fun at all, they seem to flex too much for sporty handling and then also seem to grab too much sometimes right when I don't want them to. I did find them to have a very nice property in the rain, was going around a tight cloverleaf when it was coming down pretty good and decided to push them to see when they would start giving way...I hit the threshold and they would just slip the tiniest bit and keep going, very different from the Eagles that could be a bit dramatic when pushed too hard in the wet.
Haven't had the RT43s in snow yet, but I feel confident that they will be very good.

I am suggesting that my wife look at RT43s for her FWD sedan as she refuses to use snow tires and is not good about staying home during winter storms like she promises to do and then gets stuck on the bad hill up to our neighborhood (and then calls me). She is about as low key as drivers get and sporty driving is unheard of for her, so I think they will be a good choice for her.

I did note that last time CR looked at the RT43, they only gave it top marks for winter driving in the T rating. A new mag with tire reviews just showed up and I will have to see if they looked at the RT43 again.

 

[SatinSilver]

Just looked at the new issue CR yesterday and they rank the T-rated RT43 number one followed by a Michelin. Those were the only two tires they recommend in the category. The H-rated RT43 isn't recommended by them and ranks 7th or so iirc. So good choice. I've had the T-rated RT43 on the 2012 Camry for the last 14k miles. I'd consider them again. But don't really drive that car in bad weather. Overall I prefer the RT43 over the Nokian eNTRYE(wears very fast but it's the H-rated one).

The Nokian was only $50/tire from Amazon. After 22k miles on the 05 Matrix the tire has 6 mm left. It starts out at 11 mm and 700 utqg. Those were easy hwy miles. Looks like wearing evenly. The previous set of tires, some Hankook Ventus V2 Concepts went 65k miles but they were shot and prob should have been replaced at 50k.

 

[wdn]

Michelin X Tour A/S are excellent and are the same as the Defender A/S T+H just the Costco branded same tire. For the Corolla they were only $87 each mounted with the $70 instant rebate and the 1¢ tire installation package.

 

[JLTD]

Originally Posted by Nick1994
Sounds like tire pressure should be bumped up.


Precisely. It would be a concern if the entire tire was wearing quickly; but shoulder wear is a pressure issue. Let me guess, you turn a lot of corners.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted by SatinSilver
Just looked at the new issue CR yesterday and they rank the T-rated RT43 number one followed by a Michelin. Those were the only two tires they recommend in the category. The H-rated RT43 isn't recommended by them and ranks 7th or so iirc. So good choice. I've had the T-rated RT43 on the 2012 Camry for the last 14k miles. I'd consider them again. But don't really drive that car in bad weather. Overall I prefer the RT43 over the Nokian eNTRYE(wears very fast but it's the H-rated one).
The Nokian was only $50/tire from Amazon. After 22k miles on the 05 Matrix the tire has 6 mm left. It starts out at 11 mm and 700 utqg. Those were easy hwy miles. Looks like wearing evenly. The previous set of tires, some Hankook Ventus V2 Concepts went 65k miles but they were shot and prob should have been replaced at 50k.

I took a peek at the latest CR while I was wolfing my cereal down this morning and noted that they gave the same "Good" ratings to the T and H rated RT43s for snow and ice (not the top "Best" ratings), which placed them very high for winter among the all seasons as generally only the top snows were getting the "Best" ratings in those categories. I'm pretty sure that the H rated RT43 ranked 3rd in its category and I was surprised that they didn't recommend it as it was much cheaper than the #1-2 tires that didn't rate all that much better.
I also noticed that they really liked the Michelin CrossClimate (H rated?? not sure), but it was very expensive. We will be looking at this mag closely as my wife needs new tires...I will probably push for the CrossClimates if she is willing to put out the coin as tires last a very long time for her and maybe the RT43s if she is feeling frugal. I don't think we can get T rated in the latter in the size she will need, that speed rating would be just fine for the way she drives.

 

[supton]

I have had a few sets of RT43 in T rating and been content. Ok in snow when new. Half tread is about what you expect (not as good). I do like running snows when I can, though.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted by wdn
Michelin X Tour A/S are excellent and are the same as the Defender A/S T+H just the Costco branded same tire. For the Corolla they were only $87 each mounted with the $70 instant rebate and the 1¢ tire installation package.

Let's see if Michelin did fix the problem with the Defender T+H. The tire that the Defender series was supposed to replace - the Harmony/Destiny/X Radial DT/Weatherwise II(Sears) was a good tire. The ones(X Radial DT) that I put on my parent's van lasted almost 10 years, when they were pulled at the 102K mark(I think they were installed when the van had 40-45K on it), they were at 5/32" tread. They were replaced more for safety reasons, classical Michelin dry rot and it was getting close for NorCal rains.

The Premier A/S has been a touch disappointing for a friend's Subaru - I think those do a lot better on a luxury car or an Accord/Camry/Fusion/Malibu.

 

[wdn]

I too had Michelin X Radial that I replaced after 10 years mine I bought new and put 70,000 miles they still had tread but were no longer good in snow. That was the car I put the X Tour A/S on last winter. I also have late production original Defenders on there about 2 years and they still look new.