Mercedes Benz "new strategy"

[JeffKeryk]

I never understood the "there's so much tech in the car" thing. You have a big Ipad in your car....so what. I don't want that distraction in my car when I am driving and I have a laptop at home.....I do my work on a computer,....last thing I want is more screen time.

I am not sure you understand the Infotainment screen. It has 2 primary purposes: 1st, set controls that might be done with knobs on other cars. radio, ac, mirrors and much more. 2nd, the main use, while driving, is GPS and driving conditions.
Here is a kinda long tutorial about settings. By the way, it is from January so it is imcomplete; there are new options and functionality from over the air updates. Model 3 Infotainment Tutorial

Here's driving, from Car and Driver. Driving starts about 4 minute mark: Car and Driver

Consumer Reports says the Model 3 Infotainment System is the best in the world. Finally, much of what you do is being included in voice commands.
"Set the temperatue to 74." I do not know many commands myself.

Finally, the technology is far more than the screen; it is all about the car.
Having said this, this car is not for everyone.
I know I live in Silicon Valley, CA. A Tesla bubble. It is not the only car I have; if I had only 1 car it would not be a Tesla or any EV for that matter.

 

[PimTac]

One should not be paying attention to the info screen while driving. There is nothing on that screen that you need to know while paying attention to the road. If you have to change HVAC settings do it at a stop. Most people just set a temperature anyway and let that ride. Most vehicles have steering wheel buttons or voice activated controls for some features so those are options.

The only thing the screen might prove helpful with is turn by turn navigation but again having voice instructions helps there as well. I’m happy that Mazda has incorporated turn by turn nav in the HUD which is the perfect place for it.

I didn’t have any if this before the CX5 so it was a learning curve for me as well. The key point is, don’t let the tech distract you but let it help you in your driving where it can.

 

[UncleDave]

I like the big screen after trying it, but I think its a compromise.

I dont love a complete lack of dedicated controls, and no back up at all if the screen has a problem.
I like climate on knobs I can manipulate gloved I dont even need to look at them just reach over "there" and do it.

I also sleep better on 4 engine planes flying over the ocean even though the big twins are amazing so- Im kind of old school, or just old....

My honda goes the other way with too many single function buttons everywhere that you have to decipher what the meaning of is at times, but a decent infotainment system -which to me is important the tech serves me and makes my long highway drive more enjoyable - aside from radio not much in the city though.

 

[JeffKeryk]

After driving the Model 3 and then driving the GS 350 F Sport, I find the Lexus confusing; overly complicated.
Waaaay to many buttons to decipher. There is such beauty in simplicity.
The Model 3 screen takes getting used to and is not for everyone. But once you get it, it is very intuitive.
If you watch the tutorial video I posted above, you will know more than most Tesla owners. Including me.
Sue understands this car much better than I. I am still trying to service the oil. She's doing 37 in a 35, though...

 

[BHopkins]

Its the number one selling small SUV in the United States in Q3 by orders of magnitude.
I haven't seen many either but it just started shipping recently.

I'm not finding any sales data to support this claim. Everything I see shows the Model Y in about 9th place for 3Q20 small SUV sales.

I guess if you really believe the Model Y to be a luxury SUV, it is leading the pack of the small luxury SUV market. But by no means "by orders of magnitude". But Tesla does not consider the MY to be a luxury SUV. I don't think anyone does, except whoever put this report together. So if you compare it to the entire pack, there are plenty of other small SUVs that are "killing" the MY. ICE SUVs.

2020 U.S SUV Car Sales Figures By Model (With Rankings)

Automotive Sales Data and Statistics

www.goodcarbadcar.net

2020 U.S SUV Car Sales Figures By Model (With Rankings)

Automotive Sales Data and Statistics

www.goodcarbadcar.net

 

[UncleDave]

I'm not finding any sales data to support this claim. Everything I see shows the Model Y in about 9th place for 3Q20 small SUV sales.

I guess if you really believe the Model Y to be a luxury SUV, it is leading the pack of the small luxury SUV market. But by no means "by orders of magnitude". But Tesla does not consider the MY to be a luxury SUV. I don't think anyone does, except whoever put this report together. So if you compare it to the entire pack, there are plenty of other small SUVs that are "killing" the MY. ICE SUVs.

2020 U.S SUV Car Sales Figures By Model (With Rankings)

Automotive Sales Data and Statistics

www.goodcarbadcar.net

2020 U.S SUV Car Sales Figures By Model (With Rankings)

Automotive Sales Data and Statistics

www.goodcarbadcar.net

Sorry small "luxury" SUV - same class as MB

Model Y is not on the small SUV chart so you are comparing out of segment vehicles not in the same chart when you say 9nth place. Open up and paste the small chart and show everyone what you are doing.

By the same standard it isn't what you or I believe its the industry deciding what goes where.

35K compared to the next best selling vehicle with 13.2 and the MB about 11 a third of the tesla number - killing it.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I'm not finding any sales data to support this claim. Everything I see shows the Model Y in about 9th place for 3Q20 small SUV sales.

I guess if you really believe the Model Y to be a luxury SUV, it is leading the pack of the small luxury SUV market. But by no means "by orders of magnitude". But Tesla does not consider the MY to be a luxury SUV. I don't think anyone does, except whoever put this report together. So if you compare it to the entire pack, there are plenty of other small SUVs that are "killing" the MY. ICE SUVs.

2020 U.S SUV Car Sales Figures By Model (With Rankings)

Automotive Sales Data and Statistics

www.goodcarbadcar.net

2020 U.S SUV Car Sales Figures By Model (With Rankings)

Automotive Sales Data and Statistics

www.goodcarbadcar.net

Tesla is considered to be in the luxury segment.

 

[BHopkins]

Sorry small "luxury" SUV - same class as MB

Model Y is not on the small SUV chart so you are comparing out of segment vehicles not in the same chart when you say 9nth place. Open up and paste the small chart and show everyone what you are doing.

By the same standard it isn't what you or I believe its the industry deciding what goes where.

35K compared to the next best selling vehicle with 13.2 and the MB about 11 a third of the tesla number - killing it.

Oh. OK. That makes a difference.

Mercedes sold about 11,000 GLC/GLK alone, not counting the rest of the G class. Tesla sold 35k MY. Much more. But not even a single order of magnitude, let alone "orders". I agree that the MY is selling well. But I just wanted to correct the gross exaggeration.

 

[UncleDave]

Oh. OK. That makes a difference.

Mercedes sold about 11,000 GLC/GLK alone, not counting the rest of the G class. Tesla sold 35k MY. Much more. But not even a single order of magnitude, let alone "orders". I agree that the MY is selling well. But I just wanted to correct the gross exaggeration.

Agreed my "order of magnitude" was a gross exaggeration. Multiples would be a better description.

It would have been much more accurate to say about 3X the GLC/GLK.

Or about 8K more than all the Mercedes SUV's in the segment combined.

 

[edyvw]

After driving the Model 3 and then driving the GS 350 F Sport, I find the Lexus confusing; overly complicated.
Waaaay to many buttons to decipher. There is such beauty in simplicity.
The Model 3 screen takes getting used to and is not for everyone. But once you get it, it is very intuitive.
If you watch the tutorial video I posted above, you will know more than most Tesla owners. Including me.
Sue understands this car much better than I. I am still trying to service the oil. She's doing 37 in a 35, though...

View attachment 31760

It looks like Samsung my wife uses to read recipes when she cooks.

 

[edyvw]

Tesla is considered to be in the luxury segment.

Price wise? Yes. Other than that. No.
But, every thread about any manufacturer you turn into Tesla.
Are you not happy with it? Bcs. topic was Mercedes, and there is A LOT more to MB than to Tesla as a company. So this to me looks like justification of purchase.

 

[JHZR2]

All the naysayers have 1 thing in common: the numbers tell a different story.
I have worked with Lexus and Mercedes on several deals over the past 3 years; 6 to be exact, all Internet sales managers.
Both have told me they are scared of Tesla, especially the Model Y.

The original Model 3 backlog is long depleted and/or cancelled; many of those orders were for the $35K 3 that never materialized.
Tesla has the most loyal customers of any car company with an overall satisfaction rating of 90%. A staggering 80% of customers buy or lease another Tesla for their next car.

Perhaps naysayer opinions might be tempered with data analysis by the people who are experts at market analysis.
Forbes on Tesla

Regarding the Prius analogy; it is being used incorrectly. Yes, Prius sales are not where they were, by a long shot. But Toyota hybrids have supplanted those sales and more. Try getting a decent discount on a RAV4 hybrid... Comparing an entire company to 1 car is bogus analysis. And you'd better bet other car manufacturers developed hybrids to catch up with the hot selling Prius. Just like what is going on with MBZ and Tesla.
FYI, my Silicon Valley career focused on data analytics, specifically predictive analytics in Semiconductor Manufacturing.
Given the rapid growth/change nature of the business, forecasting is only everything.

Of course Mercedes or Lexus would say that. Tesla is diluting the marketplace. So for the same number of car buyers, they will remove some market share. That’s a given. Especially when a car like the model 3 is being arbitrarily placed upmarket and sold as if it’s some sort of steal.

I find it wild that we are now basing customer satisfaction on one round of vehicles. The model S came out in 2012. Very few were around in 2012-2013. By 2016 there were maybe 100k in the USA. in 2019 those 2016 cars on three year leases came time for renewal. How do we know they weren’t given a sweetheart deal? What is bogus is thinking that we truly understand owner satisfaction and repeat buyer trends based upon leases that barely started coming up last year. Most people have brand loyalty to some extent. I don’t see how this is news. For all the claims about forecasting date, I still don’t get how you cannot accept that Tesla isn’t at any steady-state trend yet. In either direction. They could still be going up (as mentioned before, if they get some lower cost options, gross sales will surely go up).

And the Prius analogy is a good analogy, because at the time the Prius was a niche vehicle, like the Teslas are. If you are the brand manager for Prius, loss, even internally, is a loss in sales. Funny too that very few options have come up to contest the Prius, which isn’t particularly hot selling anymore.

I wish Tesla well. I’m a shareholder. I might buy a model 3 as a commuter at some point because it’s ideal for some of my uses. But I think pure eV is stupid for most (Again I’m a PHEV believer), I know the intrinsic limits in the tech, but I don’t know buyer trends, and won’t claim to know them. But when you have the model 3 outselling the Camry, I’d argue it’s probably still a fluke. I love this screen shot. Tesla data in this chart I would equate to the Toyota Venza data below. And note the Prius numbers Btw...

 

[UncleDave]

Price wise? Yes. Other than that. No.
But, every thread about any manufacturer you turn into Tesla.
Are you not happy with it? Bcs. topic was Mercedes, and there is A LOT more to MB than to Tesla as a company. So this to me looks like justification of purchase.

Id say you can add performance to price as these things hammer pretty hard, enough to blow away most of the segment rivals easily.

Happy to get back to the topic.

The article was a word salad that didnt give us much to go by in terms of specific action but more of a metaphor loaded list " make the clients love us " - a few things in there...

One of my favorite part is this

"By the year 2025, Mercedes Benz AG is aiming for a return on sales (RoS) level within a mid to high single-digit range, even under unfavorable market conditions. The company’s goal is to achieve a double-digit margin in a strong market environment."

So..you are going to spend a bunch of money and aim for 6-9 points in 4.2 years.
That doens'n't even cover inflation.
He then goes on to specify a higher goal in a strong market, but set himself up to claim he met goal at 6 points over 4 years.

 

[JHZR2]

One of my favorite part is this

"By the year 2025, Mercedes Benz AG is aiming for a return on sales (RoS) level within a mid to high single-digit range, even under unfavorable market conditions. The company’s goal is to achieve a double-digit margin in a strong market environment."

So..you are going to spend a bunch of money and aim for 6-9 points in 4.2 years.
That doens'n't even cover inflation.
He then goes on to specify a higher goal in a strong market, but set himself up to claim he met goal at 6 points over 4 years.

Their sale prices will notionally increase for inflation. The return on sales would be based upon that inflation indexed sales price. So the ROS increasing, would be an increase on an increase In price. At least that’s how I took it.

 

[edyvw]

Id say you can add performance to price as these things hammer pretty hard, enough to blow away most of the segment rivals easily.

Happy to get back to the topic.

The article was a word salad that did give us much to go by in terms of specific action but more of a metaphor loaded list " make the clients love us " - a few things in there...

One of my favorite part is this

"By the year 2025, Mercedes Benz AG is aiming for a return on sales (RoS) level within a mid to high single-digit range, even under unfavorable market conditions. The company’s goal is to achieve a double-digit margin in a strong market environment."

So..you are going to spend a bunch of money and aim for 6-9 points in 4.2 years.
That doens'n't even cover inflation.
He then goes on to specify a higher goal in a strong market, but set himself up to claim he met goal at 6 points over 4 years.

Article is a word salad. Article is an excuse for another topic how great Tesla is and trying to fish out someone to support purchase.
With that plastic inside, yes Prius was actually good comparison.

 

[UncleDave]

Their sale prices will notionally increase for inflation. The return on sales would be based upon that inflation indexed sales price. So the ROS increasing, would be an increase on an increase In price. At least that’s how I took it.

I prefer ROI as a term to ROS.

ROS is dividing operating profit by net sales - but thats ebitda making "operating profit" a wonderfully opaque construct.

Id prefer to see ROI for all the new stuff he just promised - vs being able to blend a lossy product with a profitable one.

basically subsidize BEV with ICE and as long as he's up 6 points he made it.

 

[UncleDave]

Article is a word salad. Article is an excuse for another topic how great Tesla is and trying to fish out someone to support purchase.
With that plastic inside, yes Prius was actually good comparison.

Now whose bringing tesla into the conversation ?

 

[edyvw]

Now whose bringing tesla into the conversation ?

LOL, sure.
That train left the station moment he said: but Tesla....

 

[PimTac]

For being the best selling suv in its class I have yet to see one. This is the big mystery.

 

[edyvw]

For being the best selling suv in its class I have yet to see one. This is the big mystery.

It is very regional. Practicality limits usability. Come to local ski resorts here, you ain't gonna see one. You might see one or two in Aspen, Vail or Beaver Creek.