Mercedes-Benz is leaving NJ

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Originally Posted By: BHopkins
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
How much does Mercedes pay its blue collar workers at the assembly plant ?



Not sure. But MB isn't moving an assembly plant. They are moving North American headquarters, right? A lot like Toyota announced earlier in the year, moving their North American headquarters from California to Texas.


See, that I can understand, since I asssume that the gross receipts tax rate in to is lower than the corporate tax rate in CA (of which there is none in TX). Property taxes in tx are high, but an HQ doesn't hold that much property. I don't get GA. Atlanta is a long drive from their factory, and a time zone.
 
Governors can give them incentives to move, tax exemptions for x yrs etc. Atlanta is New York-south. A lot of Corporations have been moving there. Employees will love it as they can live like kings down there. Real Estate is a real bargain.
A number of yrs ago when George Allen was Gov. of Va., he traveled to Europe and Asia quite a bit. He was criticized a lot by the media. A few years later and after he was out of office, Va. started getting a lot of companies moving in to Northern Va, Loudoun Cty in particular. Tysons and Dulles corridor went crazy. Every major corp has a large offece there. It's like silicon valley east. What do they all require - internet connectivity and bandwith. Lately all the "cloud" companies are moving in. Allen was instrumental in setting up the infrastructure for all that growth. A major web internet highway runs down the Potomac River and thru Tysons. Loudown cty has the second highest median income in the country. The bad part is that a lot of these companies suck on the federal teat.
Of course on the rare occassion that a politician does something good, you never hear about it.
 
Originally Posted By: LT4 Vette
How much does Mercedes pay its blue collar workers at the assembly plant ?


Well they start their plant equipment techs at $25/hr...which is high for AL, and the south in general. Not sure about assembly line techs, but I've heard they are well paid.

For comparison, Airbus in Mobile is starting experienced A/C techs at $16/hr during training and $20/hr once on the job.
 
Correction Mercedes is based in Stuttgart, their US HQ used to be based in NJ. My guess as to why it was in NJ to begin with is because that's where the cars used to be all imported. Now they are moving to Atlanta closer to their manufacturing operations and into a less regulated more business friendly environment. Makes sense.

If I worked for MB in NJ I'd be chomping at the bit to relocate to Atlanta, NJ sucks.
 
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Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Correction Mercedes is based in Stuttgart, their US HQ used to be based in NJ. My guess as to why it was in NJ to begin with is because that's where the cars used to be all imported. Now they are moving to Atlanta closer to their manufacturing operations and into a less regulated more business friendly environment. Makes sense.

If I worked for MB in NJ I'd be chomping at the bit to relocate to Atlanta, NJ sucks.


Except that as I showed, GA is far from the "less regulated, business friendly" state you define. In fact, it's in the worse half of states. Though perhaps an improvement, its not much. As shown, if they wanted to be closer to manufacturing, AL was a better choice.

True that NJ was closer to import locations, but in fact even my w123 cars came via Baltimore, not Port Newark, so there is a bit of fault in the proximity argument.

NJ/NY is where the money is, and also likely where the initial dealers and parts users were. I recall that my grandfather bought an early VWs from the first vw dealer. I can get any part I need for my e30 and w123 in a day because of proximity, since bmw and mb are local.

NJ has its downsides like every single state in the country has theirs. It may be a tougher place for people who can't cut it and aren't high earners, doesn't mean that it's all bad. Frankly, if I was offered to move to Atlanta,mid likely turn it down. ATL has its downsides too. That's all opinion.
 
Didn't we establish that Atlanta has a higher percentage of luxury car owners than NY/NJ? Add a major airline hub (ATL) to allow for equally convenient travel to the lower taxes, and lower real estate costs, and moving makes sense.

All your data to prove how good NJ actually is doesn't explain the move. You showed it, but there was a lot of specious data, irrelevant to a business decision, the real question is: what did MB analysts conclude? You showed sales tax and real estate tax data...so what? MB isn't paying those...they didn't make the move so their 1,500 employees would have lower sales tax. They did it to lower their business costs, and yes, the tax rate change from 9% to 6% is big. It cuts their tax costs by a third. That matters.
 
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Atlanta is a pretty nice place, as is most of New Jersey, I'm sure.

Everything in NJ probably depreciated down to zero on their books a long time ago, so building a new facility to start the cycle over may be a good move for them.

They could just be tired of New Jersey and ready for some new scenery. May not be anymore complicated than that.
 
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
I'll take a WAG and wager that the fact the Georgia is a Right to Work state provided the impetus for the move.


For a corporate office I doubt that matters.
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Didn't we establish that Atlanta has a higher percentage of luxury car owners than NY/NJ? Add a major airline hub (ATL) to allow for equally convenient travel to the lower taxes, and lower real estate costs, and moving makes sense.

All your data to prove how good NJ actually is doesn't explain the move. You showed it, but there was a lot of specious data, irrelevant to a business decision, the real question is: what did MB analysts conclude? You showed sales tax and real estate tax data...so what? MB isn't paying those...they didn't make the move so their 1,500 employees would have lower sales tax. They did it to lower their business costs, and yes, the tax rate change from 9% to 6% is big. It cuts their tax costs by a third. That matters.


Not sure we established anything. Are you comparing one city against an entire state or states? If so the comparison is faulty. If you compare the entire state of Georgia against the entire state of New Jersey and New York perhaps it is relevant but I don't recall seeing that.

Further my intent of showing data was not in any way to state that New Jersey was the best in fact if you look at all of the maps that I showed New Jersey is indeed fairly low on the totem pole. However that said my point is indeed that George it isn't a heck of a lot better. That is indeed my point and my curiosity I could certainly understand if they moved to Texas the way that Toyota did. I could understand if they move to Alabama which has a better Business climate then Georgia does. There is an entire upper 50th percentile of states with better business climate in Georgia or New Jersey. Remember the both Georgia and New Jersey are in the lower half.

That's the curiosity Atlanta isn't that great of an airport there are plenty of other large airport pubs around I don't see that as compelling. Diamler already has manufacturing of the Alabama so there's no point in making a headquarters a time zone and a long drive distanced.

I'm not saying NJ is great, I'm saying that GA isn't that much compellingly better compared to other states they could have moved to.
 
We discussed the luxury car ownership in the previous thread on this move. I thought that the luxury car ownership rate was settled, after several claims to the contrary. Georgia leads the nation in luxury car ownership. It's far ahead of New York, and NJ didn't make the top ten.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/19/your-money/in-sales-of-luxuries-geography-matters-.html?_r=0

I'm not running down either state, I used to live in NJ and have defended it previously, but Taxes matter, and NJ has pretty high corporate taxes, and given the billions that MBUSA makes, that adds up to money.

You say ATL isn't that great, well.... compared to what?

Delta's hub in ATL is one of the biggest airports in the country. It carries far more traffic than EWR or PHL, and it's easy to get to (unless the roads are icy, but that never happens...). By passenger emplanements, it is the largest airport in the WORLD. For a company executive looking to travel, that airport offers a lot of no stops across this country and to other countries. A lot more convenient than the New York Metro area airports (where I was based for five years).

Lower taxes, easier travel, closer to customers. Seems pretty simple to me...
 
I've been to Jersey and live 90 minutes from Atlanta. Atlanta is a much nicer place. Better weather, better real estate options and a much nicer business climate. NJ's tax climate was ranked 49th last year by the Tax Foundation. It's also a right to work state which means that business costs are lower across the board. It also brings them closer to their Manufacturing facilities in AL, and their port in Brunswick, GA. NJ like California is losing businesses because it is simply too expensive to do business their compared to many other places; it's that simple.

No offense to anyone who lives in NJ, but I've been there, and quite frankly it's [censored](my opinion).
 
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Originally Posted By: 29662
I've been to Jersey and live 90 minutes from Atlanta. Atlanta is a much nicer place. Better weather, better real estate options and a much nicer business climate. NJ's tax climate was ranked 49th last year by the Tax Foundation. It's also a right to work state which means that business costs are lower across the board. It also brings them closer to their Manufacturing facilities in AL, and their port in Brunswick, GA. NJ like California is losing businesses because it is simply too expensive to do business their compared to many other places; it's that simple.

No offense to anyone who lives in NJ, but I've been there, and quite frankly it's [censored](my opinion).


And don't park your car in Newark. Lesson learned.

And if you live in Newark? Move. Another lesson learned..
 
^^^ The article sites, amongst other things, access to transportation hubs and $50M in tax incentives for the move.

Remember: NJ tried hard to keep M-B here.. and lost.

Will be interesting to see how much the article mirrors our discussion.

I wonder how many other businesses will walk..
 
Originally Posted By: Astro14
We discussed the luxury car ownership in the previous thread on this move. I thought that the luxury car ownership rate was settled, after several claims to the contrary. Georgia leads the nation in luxury car ownership. It's far ahead of New York, and NJ didn't make the top ten.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/19/your-money/in-sales-of-luxuries-geography-matters-.html?_r=0

I'm not running down either state, I used to live in NJ and have defended it previously, but Taxes matter, and NJ has pretty high corporate taxes, and given the billions that MBUSA makes, that adds up to money.

You say ATL isn't that great, well.... compared to what?

Delta's hub in ATL is one of the biggest airports in the country. It carries far more traffic than EWR or PHL, and it's easy to get to (unless the roads are icy, but that never happens...). By passenger emplanements, it is the largest airport in the WORLD. For a company executive looking to travel, that airport offers a lot of no stops across this country and to other countries. A lot more convenient than the New York Metro area airports (where I was based for five years).

Lower taxes, easier travel, closer to customers. Seems pretty simple to me...


So you're really saying that airport access is a key player in this? I obviously don't fly nearly as much as you do, but I do travel for work around 50% of the time, and as a frequent traveler I can certainly say that ATL is nowhere near the top of my list of airports that I'd prefer to fly through. Yeah they have a lot of flights but that's kind of a problem too sometimes. I'm not saying that PHL or EWR our wonderful either though. Again just that ATL certainly as a frequent traveler is not on the top of my list of airports to fly from or to fly through.

Luxury car ownership as a statistic? Not sure I'd buy that either, especially given that the articles didn't have real data, and the main take away was that "luxury" goods were more obtainable to lower-income people in places with lower costs. Even if the numbers are higher there how do you cross an economic decision with one of where the population is? After all even if the statistic is right for Georgia, I would venture to guess that if you combined the ownership of the same square mileage across the northeast with the square mileage around Georgia that the number still will be higher on the northeast.

Again my whole premise is just that it doesn't make a lot of sense to me that they would choose ATL as a location to move to given the still lousy business climate and the still pretty decent distance from their manufacturing operations.

I can stay Texas or some other places just not there. But that's just me, and my read into the data and statistics that I've seen.
 
They simply asked what financial / tax incentives will you give us if we move to your state / city ?

Boeing builds the 787 in South Carolina, I'm sure Boeing didn't bring business to the East coast just because of their delicious southern style BBQ...

Off topic: I worked in the Cherry Hill, NJ area for a few months and thought I was a nice area, wouldn't want to deal with cold weather / bad winters. I also worked in the Atlanta area a few months and thought it was a nice area.
 
So, we have some info now, by the link provided above...

From here: http://www.nj.com/bergen/index.ssf/2015/...or_atlanta.html

Quote:
1,000. That's roughly how many people worked at Mercedes-Benz's U.S. headquarters in Montvale. The company said "several operational areas" will remain in Montvale and Robbinsville, N.J. though how many full-time workers will remain in New Jersey was not revealed. Non-exempt employees like secretarial and support staff will be likely be left behind during the move, while a chunk of employees in Montvale will likely relocate to Atlanta, according to John Boyd, a corporate site specialist at Princeton-based The Boyd Company.


OK, Mercedes said 1600. And, they will retain operations in NJ, so those costs will remain/continue. Obviously there is a basis why some other embedded stuff was not worth/cost effective to move.

Let's decompose further... Obviously it is not for the good of their employees. The non-exempt workers will be "left behind" (fired). They mention cost of labor too, so I doubt the employees leaving are going to make more money. So, worse schools, disruption of their kids' lives, hotter summers. I wonder what percentage will actually make the move????

Quote:

20. Mercedes will be realizing a massive savings by moving to Fulton County. Boyd estimated that Mercedes will cut operations cost north of 20 percent with the move. The savings come largely in the form of lower costs in labor, property taxes, energy, construction –- and it's in the tens of millions. Multiple news outlets have reported that the incentive package in Georgia is worth as much as $50 million.


OK so the GA taxpayers are kicking in $50M worth of "equivalents" in the deal, and MB is paying a reported $93M for new facilities. But they will save 20%. Wow, that's some numbers. I guess they'll can more employees to hire lower wage folks to get those savings.

Quote:

$916,700. Mercedes-Benz paid $916,700 in property taxes last year on its sprawling 37-acre campus in Montvale. The high property taxes in New Jersey aren't just a problem for residential homeowners –- corporations are looking for relief on their quarterly bills, too. In Georgia, the company will likely receive abatements though details have not yet been made public.


So, we saw from before that GA taxes are around 1/2 of NJ. The property is cheaper too, given that other figures I saw indicated that GA housing costs are about 80% of the national average.

But once the abatements expire, there still will be a tax bill, and I suspect that it will still be many hundreds of thousands a year.

Quote:

207. Nearly 1,000 flights originate out of 207 gates in Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport each day, making it the busiest airport in the United States. Frequent direct flights to Frankfurt, near the company's global headquarters in Stuttgart, are no doubt a big part of the appeal. Quick access to the shipping port in Brunswick, G.A. and the manufacturing plant in Alabama were also key factors in leaving New Jersey.


Wonderful. As mentioned, ATL isn't anywhere near MY favorite airports to fly to/from. But it is one of the largest in the world.

I don't buy that HQ being close to a shipping port is important, because Robbinsville is where the spare parts repository is and that isn't moving. Any freight goes to AL, not ATL, so that's a weak one to me. And the plant in AL is still a time zone and well over a hundred miles away... Yet no better flights and an annoying car drive (I used to drive from ATL into AL all the time, and know the I85 well).

I still come back to my original premise. Im sure they can do better than NJ, Im sure they can save money moving elsewhere, but Im just not seeing how/why ATL is a good choice compared to elsewhere... That's just me.
 
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Originally Posted By: Tdbo
I'll take a WAG and wager that the fact the Georgia is a Right to Work state provided the impetus for the move.


For a corporate office I doubt that matters.


If one moves their corporate office to an adjoining state, one might be looking at future expansion opportunities. They may figure that future expansion would be possible in GA, and would give them another pool of potential employees to tap into. This would be similar to what Honda did when they opened a plant up in Indiana about 10 years ago.

Or maybe MB decided they wanted to be in a lower tax, sunbelt state closer to their existing operations.

At any rate they didn't want to be in Jersey. They exercised their valid right to leave.
 
So now the question is, what is their plan? I have to wonder if their plans are to expand bus and heavy truck operations or what. I've seen more and more MB Setra busses in the USA, which never used to be used here.

Reason why I speculate heavy truck or bus, is that though they're starting to fill "downmarket" cars, but have kept pretty high price points. There is no basic a and b class with wheel covers and cloth seats, just these cla and the gla cars.

If they built a U.S. plant and started building b class diesels, I might buy one. But they try to keep "exclusivity" in the USA (including no taxis, police cars, etc - I'm surprised they sell sprinters with their marque on them), so I'm guessing they don't want to build lots of 300,000 car plants the way Kia or vw might.
 
The mid Atlantic states are very nice, you can own guns, great fishing, great boating, better weather, cheaper gas. Real estate is pretty reasonable in most areas although in nice areas its still expensive.

I'm still not a fan of NJ, the charcoal filters Mercedes uses work great in the northern part of it!
 
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