MC 5w-20 w/VSOT, 4100 mi, 5.4L Ford Expy

[Jerry]

31K on vehicle, mixed use.

*Flagged as higher than univ avg. I have another UOA posted from 9.9K mi on vehicle w/ 7ppm Cu and 0ppm Pb. VSOT did cut Fe in half though.

Doesn't seem to come from Vavoline Sny Oil Treat based on results posted. Guess I'll avoid it for now.

Have at it...

AL 5
Chrom 1
Fe 16
Cu 12 *
Pb 5 *
Tin 1
Moly 109
Ni 1
Mang 1
Sil 0
Titan 0
Potas 1
Boron 123
Si 17
Sod 6
Calc 1830
Magn 23
Phos 655
Zinc 852
Bar 16

Sus Vis @210 54
Flash 380F
Fuel Antifr 0%
H2O 0%
Insol .4%

TBN 2.6

Thanks in advance
Jerry

 

[buster]

I would check your air intake. Could be getting some dirt in their causing higher Al, Fe and Pb.

 

[darkdan]

What year is this motor?

 

[Jerry]

It's an '03. Just did air filter change, did have alot of trouble getting it back, but did double check it. I said the FE is half of original number from the first UOA. I believe this engine doesnt have Pb in the bearings from what I read. fyi

 

[ford390gashog]

the bearings are all aluminum no lead.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Looks like very little VSOT in there. How much of the gray 15 oz bottle did you use??

 

[Ray H]

quote:

---

Originally posted by buster:
I would check your air intake. Could be getting some dirt in their causing higher Al, Fe and Pb.

---

But, where's the silicon that would support this speculation?

 

[Jerry]

I used whole bottle in this test... Thanks for inputs. Jerry

 

[The Critic]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Blue99:
Mike, do a search on 5.4L and I think you'll find that Si of 14-18 ppm is very average for these motors.

Here's the Blackstone Universal Avg's for wear metals, as lifted from another 5.4L UOA:

Current....Avg

Al 5........3
Chrom 1..1
Fe 16....16
Cu 12.....6
Pb 5.......2

Lead is slightly elevated, the rest are all in range. Suggest an e-mail to Terry Dyson if you have concerns.

If a full 15 oz. bottle of VSOT was used, it sheared rather quickly, as this sample is right back at the 8.5 cSt new oil starting point.

And while the moly is elevated 50 ppm or so, the other additive elements are right in the ballpark for a usual MC 5W-20 UOA.

I'd vote the VSOT off the island for future OCI's on this engine.

---

Maybe it shouldn't be less than 10, BUT if there is Nickel present then there is definitely an intake leak. The higher wear proves that.

In addition, if a whole bottle of VSPOT was added, the TBN should be higher than this.

Mike

 

[The Critic]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ray H:

quote:

---

Originally posted by buster:
I would check your air intake. Could be getting some dirt in their causing higher Al, Fe and Pb.

---

But, where's the silicon that would support this speculation?

---

Si=17
Ni=1
TBN/ASTM D-4739= 2.6
Al=5
Cr=1
Fe=16
Cu=12
Pb=5

The Si is over 10ppm, plus the presence of Ni shows that there is an intake leak. In addition, the upper-end wear is affected, and is also shown by the somewhat low TBN and lowered Flashpoint.

Mike

 

[Blue99]

Mike, do a search on 5.4L and I think you'll find that Si of 14-18 ppm is very average for these motors.

Here's the Blackstone Universal Avg's for wear metals, as lifted from another 5.4L UOA:

Current....Avg

Al 5........3
Chrom 1..1
Fe 16....16
Cu 12.....6
Pb 5.......2

Lead is slightly elevated, the rest are all in range. Suggest an e-mail to Terry Dyson if you have concerns.

If a full 15 oz. bottle of VSOT was used, it sheared rather quickly, as this sample is right back at the 8.5 cSt new oil starting point.

And while the moly is elevated 50 ppm or so, the other additive elements are right in the ballpark for a usual MC 5W-20 UOA.

I'd vote the VSOT off the island for future OCI's on this engine.

 

[jorton]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Michael Wan:

In addition, the upper-end wear is affected, and is also shown by the somewhat low TBN and lowered Flashpoint.

Mike

---

Is wear from the camshaft bearings? I can't remember if the 5.4 has 2 or 4 cams. What would the viscosity be for 6 quarts 5w-20 mixed with a full bottle of VSOT? Wouldn't the oil have to be a 50 to cause so much wear from a chain driven OHC or DOHC engine?

 

[Winston]

quote:

---

From MW: BUT if there is Nickel present then there is definitely an intake leak

---

Why does Nickel proove an intake leak?

 

[nickmckinney]

quote:

---

Originally posted by jorton:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Michael Wan:

In addition, the upper-end wear is affected, and is also shown by the somewhat low TBN and lowered Flashpoint.

Mike

---

Is wear from the camshaft bearings? I can't remember if the 5.4 has 2 or 4 cams. What would the viscosity be for 6 quarts 5w-20 mixed with a full bottle of VSOT? Wouldn't the oil have to be a 50 to cause so much wear from a chain driven OHC or DOHC engine?

---

There are no cam bearings on a 4.6 or 5.4. The cam rides directly on the aluminum of the cylinder head (most overhead cam motors are like this). From the couple I have seen apart, this is where the Al in alot of these UOA are coming from. This is a serious dry start area of the mod motor.

 

[TR3-2001SE]

I vote for VSOT off the island also. It is not helping anything with this engine.

 

[Bob Miller]

Looks to me that the copper and lead might be coming from the oil cooler piping. The VSOT seems to be "cleaning" the oxidation. I'd revert to 1 oz of VSOT/quart.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

I find it very hard to believe all the goodies found in VSOT have disappeared in this UOA.

Are you sure what you used was the gray bottle oil treatment... not the red bottle stuff?

What happened to all these VSOT ingredients????

Elemental Analysis (ppm)
Copper: 1
Iron: 2
Chrome: 0
Nickel: 0
Titanium: 0
Silver: 0
Lead: 0
Tin: 2
Alum: 34
Silicon: 0
Sodium: 23
Potassium: 1
Moly: 2324
Boron: 1046
Barium: 0
Calcium: 1050
Magnesium: 968
Mangan: 0
Phosphorus: 1792
Zinc: 1740

Viscosity cSt @ 100C: 74.6.0

How does a vehicle remove that much moly, boron, magnesium & viscosity??
Where did 85% of the aluminum go? How does that evaporate?

 

[Winston]

If the sump holds six quarts, and the initial moly level is about 40, then 6qts oil plus one 15 oz bottle of VSOT should give moly levels at about 200ppm. Yes, where did the moly go?