wemay
Site Donor 2023
Passenger Cars
Passenger Cars news and trends from Lubrizol 360. New passenger car emissions legislation and fuel efficiency requirements are driving the need for higher performance lubricant technology.
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MB229.71 (0/5W-20) and VW508.00/509.00 (0W-20) physical and chemical requirements shown below (including Noack):
- Thread starter wemay
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Point?
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Information on two of the oils pioneering the way for the future of European OEM low viscosity proliferation. 
Are you ready?
Are you ready?
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What? Pioneering? You do know BMW had 0W20 oil like 7 years ago?Information on two of the oils pioneering the way for the future of European OEM low viscosity proliferation.
Are you ready?
Only thing that you should take away there is that ONLY reason why 0W20 oils are introduced is MPG gain.
Actually, MB states that in their manuals and gives you option to use MB229.51, 61 or 71.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
It was a joke.
Yes, I know... mpg. Nothing wrong with that if recommended by the OEM.
Well, MB says for better protection to use MB229.51 and for better fuel economy MB229.71.
Draw your own conclusion what they are saying.
I noticed the TBN requirements are different for these two specifications i.e. MB229.71 has a minimum of 7.5 while VW50800 is 6.0. It's not uncommon for the ACEA Cx category oil to have TBN between 6.0 and 7.0, so some formulation changes may be required to existing oils for MB229.71 approval. MB229.51 minimum TBN was 6.0
wemay
Site Donor 2023
I don't have to draw a conclusion. If MB recommends any fluid, it must be top notch...including their 229.71. Same goes for VW with the 508.00 spec. Excellent protection and better mpg. Their heavier oil recommendations offering vice-versa.
Lol. And what is vice-versa here?
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Nothing groundbreaking here. We know one sacrifices a little protection for better mpg and the other, a little mpg for better protection. I have no inclination to drive my Passat flat out for exented time on the I-75, or autocross it. So I'll never notice these differences.
...and I use both, thick and thin.
...and I use both, thick and thin.
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There are numerous UOA where you can draw conclusions. However, that is not part of conversation here.
wemay
Site Donor 2023
Lol, when people post excellent UOA using 0W20, then the response is..."well, UOA aren't meant for that". Rich!
I must have misread your previous posts about protection vs economy then. You introduce a subject then shut down any further contributions from other forum members. Very arrogant behaviour IMO.
Evidence can be out there – in this sense: https://www.oil-club.ru/forum/topic/39712-рассуждения-форумчанина-sae20-по-маслам/page/164/?tab=comments#comment-1738658
"Require" of course will then really mean some form of requirement, not just some: "Hey, the old manual didn't list 0W-20" or "The manual didn't list HTHS options of less than 3.2 cP" or "0W-20 wouldn't be approved".
"Require" of course will then really mean some form of requirement, not just some: "Hey, the old manual didn't list 0W-20" or "The manual didn't list HTHS options of less than 3.2 cP" or "0W-20 wouldn't be approved".
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Two oil Oscars 2020 had been awarded when the 508/509-question got posed there – one for this Petronas that like the Castrol (batch of) Supercar A 0W-20 is said to use IL: https://oil-club.de/index.php?threa...brid-0w-20-honda-cr-v-hybrid-6500-km-ca-130h/
That Honda of course could be a 0W-8 vehicle with its stable 2.1% fuel dilution. Some nice bits and pieces though over two weeks from there: https://www.oil-club.ru/forum/topic...e20-по-маслам/?do=findComment&comment=1728740
That Honda of course could be a 0W-8 vehicle with its stable 2.1% fuel dilution. Some nice bits and pieces though over two weeks from there: https://www.oil-club.ru/forum/topic...e20-по-маслам/?do=findComment&comment=1728740
I have test reports for 0W20 and 0W30 on the OM 646 engine, which is part of the MB 229.71 specification. Yes, 0W30 shows less wear. But both oils are far from the wear limit.
@BurntMusic and I were talking in another thread about using 0w20 oils in Subaru engines that have approvals under MB 229.71 and VW 508. According to the Lubrizol comparison tool MB 229.71 meets or exceeds VW 508 in all categories other than Aftertreatment Compatibility. MB 229.71 is actually better, per Lubrizol, in the categories of Piston Deposits and Oxidative Thickening. This is convincing me to skip VW 508 oils in favor of a much less expensive MB 229.71 approved Castrol Edge EP 0w20 which is also SP/GF6 approved as well.
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I don't think that tool is meant to compare approvals across brands. I think it's more for comparing the MB approvals with other MB approvals. But yeah, like I said in the other thread, if it's good enough for Mercedes, it'll be more than capable for a Subaru.
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