Mazda P5518 7k Miles
- Thread starter tomcruise
- Start date
Originally Posted by NormanBuntz
Does the crud in the filter indicate to you that your Mazda dealer may not have done what you expected?
I would hope anyone who has an oil change would actually look to see if the oil is clean or actually exists when leaving the dealership.
Does the crud in the filter indicate to you that your Mazda dealer may not have done what you expected?
I would hope anyone who has an oil change would actually look to see if the oil is clean or actually exists when leaving the dealership.
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
The Value Mazda filter has louvers and a coil spring, wonder who makes that. The Thai filter looks as though they want flow directly to the pleats as much as possible. The holes seem too large and the base plate metal not enough. I would say that base plate would be be weak and prone to flex. Hard to tell how thick it is.
Positive Displacement Oil Pump ... same flow. Slightly more flow resistance after the pump just means the pump output runs at a little higher pressure.
Re: Inlet holes. As long as the flow area is large enough (greater than mount spud inlet area), increasing it more isn't going to make much difference at all in delta-p across the base plate. Same goes with the center tube flow area (holes vs louvers vs eCore cage).
Re: Base flex ... if designed correctly, the base plate thickness will have to increase as the flow area of the holes in the base plate increases.
The Value Mazda filter has louvers and a coil spring, wonder who makes that. The Thai filter looks as though they want flow directly to the pleats as much as possible. The holes seem too large and the base plate metal not enough. I would say that base plate would be be weak and prone to flex. Hard to tell how thick it is.
Positive Displacement Oil Pump ... same flow. Slightly more flow resistance after the pump just means the pump output runs at a little higher pressure.
Re: Inlet holes. As long as the flow area is large enough (greater than mount spud inlet area), increasing it more isn't going to make much difference at all in delta-p across the base plate. Same goes with the center tube flow area (holes vs louvers vs eCore cage).
Re: Base flex ... if designed correctly, the base plate thickness will have to increase as the flow area of the holes in the base plate increases.
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
The Value Mazda filter has louvers and a coil spring, wonder who makes that. The Thai filter looks as though they want flow directly to the pleats as much as possible. The holes seem too large and the base plate metal not enough. I would say that base plate would be be weak and prone to flex. Hard to tell how thick it is.
Positive Displacement Oil Pump ... same flow. Slightly more flow resistance after the pump just means the pump output runs at a little higher pressure.
Re: Inlet holes. As long as the flow area is large enough (greater than mount spud inlet area), increasing it more isn't going to make much difference at all in delta-p across the base plate. Same goes with the center tube flow area (holes vs louvers vs eCore cage).
Re: Base flex ... if designed correctly, the base plate thickness will have to increase as the flow area of the holes in the base plate increases.
None of those corrections to what I said have anything to do with what I said. Flow direction to pleats, not flow amount. He says there is a plastic over the pleats hard to see it. Base plate holes very large, metal between them thin. Base plate when tightened can flex more than thicker plate or plate with more metal between holes. Which I mentioned in my second post. Also maybe needed for racing as Frams HP line describes the heavy base plate. This is for a Mazda and they approved it for the use so it should be fine. Adios
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
The Value Mazda filter has louvers and a coil spring, wonder who makes that. The Thai filter looks as though they want flow directly to the pleats as much as possible. The holes seem too large and the base plate metal not enough. I would say that base plate would be be weak and prone to flex. Hard to tell how thick it is.
Positive Displacement Oil Pump ... same flow. Slightly more flow resistance after the pump just means the pump output runs at a little higher pressure.
Re: Inlet holes. As long as the flow area is large enough (greater than mount spud inlet area), increasing it more isn't going to make much difference at all in delta-p across the base plate. Same goes with the center tube flow area (holes vs louvers vs eCore cage).
Re: Base flex ... if designed correctly, the base plate thickness will have to increase as the flow area of the holes in the base plate increases.
None of those corrections to what I said have anything to do with what I said. Flow direction to pleats, not flow amount. He says there is a plastic over the pleats hard to see it. Base plate holes very large, metal between them thin. Base plate when tightened can flex more than thicker plate or plate with more metal between holes. Which I mentioned in my second post. Also maybe needed for racing as Frams HP line describes the heavy base plate. This is for a Mazda and they approved it for the use so it should be fine. Adios
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
The Value Mazda filter has louvers and a coil spring, wonder who makes that. The Thai filter looks as though they want flow directly to the pleats as much as possible. The holes seem too large and the base plate metal not enough. I would say that base plate would be be weak and prone to flex. Hard to tell how thick it is.
Positive Displacement Oil Pump ... same flow. Slightly more flow resistance after the pump just means the pump output runs at a little higher pressure.
Re: Inlet holes. As long as the flow area is large enough (greater than mount spud inlet area), increasing it more isn't going to make much difference at all in delta-p across the base plate. Same goes with the center tube flow area (holes vs louvers vs eCore cage).
Re: Base flex ... if designed correctly, the base plate thickness will have to increase as the flow area of the holes in the base plate increases.
None of those corrections to what I said have anything to do with what I said. Flow direction to pleats, not flow amount. He says there is a plastic over the pleats hard to see it. Base plate holes very large, metal between them thin. Base plate when tightened can flex more than thicker plate or plate with more metal between holes. Which I mentioned in my second post. Also maybe needed for racing as Frams HP line describes the heavy base plate. This is for a Mazda and they approved it for the use so it should be fine. Adios
Why would oil flow better through the media if the volume of oil is forced through a filter by a positive displacement oil pump - regardless if it looks like it's designed to"flow directly to the pleats"? The same volume goes through the filter regardless if it might go through one area of the media or pleats first or better.
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by Farnsworth
The Value Mazda filter has louvers and a coil spring, wonder who makes that. The Thai filter looks as though they want flow directly to the pleats as much as possible. The holes seem too large and the base plate metal not enough. I would say that base plate would be be weak and prone to flex. Hard to tell how thick it is.
Positive Displacement Oil Pump ... same flow. Slightly more flow resistance after the pump just means the pump output runs at a little higher pressure.
Re: Inlet holes. As long as the flow area is large enough (greater than mount spud inlet area), increasing it more isn't going to make much difference at all in delta-p across the base plate. Same goes with the center tube flow area (holes vs louvers vs eCore cage).
Re: Base flex ... if designed correctly, the base plate thickness will have to increase as the flow area of the holes in the base plate increases.
None of those corrections to what I said have anything to do with what I said. Flow direction to pleats, not flow amount. He says there is a plastic over the pleats hard to see it. Base plate holes very large, metal between them thin. Base plate when tightened can flex more than thicker plate or plate with more metal between holes. Which I mentioned in my second post. Also maybe needed for racing as Frams HP line describes the heavy base plate. This is for a Mazda and they approved it for the use so it should be fine. Adios
Why would oil flow better through the media if the volume of oil is forced through a filter by a positive displacement oil pump - regardless if it looks like it's designed to"flow directly to the pleats"? The same volume goes through the filter regardless if it might go through one area of the media or pleats first or better.
Farnsworth,
Regarding the baseplate flexing, I don't see it happening. This is not a lid off of a soup can. From looking at the holes the metal appears to be around 1/16" thick. Diameter of the baseplate is 3-9/16". Total filter height is 2-â…".
The baseplate is stamped and is concave in appearance. There is a ridge stamped around the circumference. I don't know how thick the can steel is but I cannot make it bend in any way. Then there is the center tube which further reinforces the structure.
This is supposedly a Roki filter but as I mentioned in a previous comment, Roki and Denso may have a Joint operation going at the Thailand plant. I don't have confirmation on that though.
Regarding the baseplate flexing, I don't see it happening. This is not a lid off of a soup can. From looking at the holes the metal appears to be around 1/16" thick. Diameter of the baseplate is 3-9/16". Total filter height is 2-â…".
The baseplate is stamped and is concave in appearance. There is a ridge stamped around the circumference. I don't know how thick the can steel is but I cannot make it bend in any way. Then there is the center tube which further reinforces the structure.
This is supposedly a Roki filter but as I mentioned in a previous comment, Roki and Denso may have a Joint operation going at the Thailand plant. I don't have confirmation on that though.
Originally Posted by PimTac
Farnsworth,
Regarding the baseplate flexing, I don't see it happening.
The can is going to flex while mounting the filter and it being used on the engine way more than the base plate ever will.
Farnsworth,
Regarding the baseplate flexing, I don't see it happening.
The can is going to flex while mounting the filter and it being used on the engine way more than the base plate ever will.
Originally Posted by PimTac
Farnsworth,
Regarding the baseplate flexing, I don't see it happening. This is not a lid off of a soup can. From looking at the holes the metal appears to be around 1/16" thick. Diameter of the baseplate is 3-9/16". Total filter height is 2-â…".
The baseplate is stamped and is concave in appearance. There is a ridge stamped around the circumference. I don't know how thick the can steel is but I cannot make it bend in any way. Then there is the center tube which further reinforces the structure.
This is supposedly a Roki filter but as I mentioned in a previous comment, Roki and Denso may have a Joint operation going at the Thailand plant. I don't have confirmation on that though.
The base plate is like a nut threading on a bolt. When the gasket touches the engine mount, pressure on the base plate increases until the filter is installed. More turning means the base is turning on the thread and advancing X amount, while the gasket is hitting the solid mount. The base plate will bend until the end of the thread is reached if enough power is put on it. The can is just carried along crimped to the base plate. Center tube us riding along too. I am not knocking your filter since it is a Mazda product. Some base plates like Fram HP or some Champ Labs , built like a gorilla, very thick. I think Motorking said theirs was almost 1/4" thick.
Farnsworth,
Regarding the baseplate flexing, I don't see it happening. This is not a lid off of a soup can. From looking at the holes the metal appears to be around 1/16" thick. Diameter of the baseplate is 3-9/16". Total filter height is 2-â…".
The baseplate is stamped and is concave in appearance. There is a ridge stamped around the circumference. I don't know how thick the can steel is but I cannot make it bend in any way. Then there is the center tube which further reinforces the structure.
This is supposedly a Roki filter but as I mentioned in a previous comment, Roki and Denso may have a Joint operation going at the Thailand plant. I don't have confirmation on that though.
The base plate is like a nut threading on a bolt. When the gasket touches the engine mount, pressure on the base plate increases until the filter is installed. More turning means the base is turning on the thread and advancing X amount, while the gasket is hitting the solid mount. The base plate will bend until the end of the thread is reached if enough power is put on it. The can is just carried along crimped to the base plate. Center tube us riding along too. I am not knocking your filter since it is a Mazda product. Some base plates like Fram HP or some Champ Labs , built like a gorilla, very thick. I think Motorking said theirs was almost 1/4" thick.
Oil filters are not torqued on very tight ... around 12~15 ft-lbs if following the manufacture tightening specs. That's not really much torque for that size of a thread. Besides, even if the base plate flexed a little bit after torqued on, it's not going to hurt anything unless the baseplate is WAY under designed for such a small tightening stress being put on it.
"Racing" filters have thicker baseplates because race cars typically have more engine vibrations when being beat to death on a race track at WOT and near redline most of the time.
"Racing" filters have thicker baseplates because race cars typically have more engine vibrations when being beat to death on a race track at WOT and near redline most of the time.
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