Mazda 6 , 20W-50!

Joined
Feb 15, 2003
Messages
13,393
Location
Jupiter, Florida
This is a good point. As we have seen here, some engines can't be "fixed" with the choice of oil or oil viscosity. Some engines are just not designed or manufactured well, and use inferior materials or lack good metallurgy to last as long as engines that are designed and made well.
That brings to mind the valve seat, head gasket sealing, cracked blocks and valve erosion problems that are common with some specific makes lately. As a consumer of an "appliance" vehicle, I'd be quite annoyed to have unnecessary problems related to poor design or metallurgy.

Add in pistons, rings, chains, and oil pumps made with yesterday's quality, and operated in high temperatures with ultra thin oils, coupled with extended OCI and fuel dilution and it should be no surprise when that timing chain wears out at 100K miles or the "ultra reliable" Honda V6 engine starts consuming oil.
 
Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Messages
555
Location
California
That brings to mind the valve seat, head gasket sealing, cracked blocks and valve erosion problems that are common with some specific makes lately. As a consumer of an "appliance" vehicle, I'd be quite annoyed to have unnecessary problems related to poor design or metallurgy.

Add in pistons, rings, chains, and oil pumps made with yesterday's quality, and operated in high temperatures with ultra thin oils, coupled with extended OCI and fuel dilution and it should be no surprise when that timing chain wears out at 100K miles or the "ultra reliable" Honda V6 engine starts consuming oil.
In all of my Honda Engines, I run a good euro oil. Typically 5/40. I don't care for a 0/40 much. The engine seems quite and smoother on a 5/40 vs a 0/40
 

Jackson_Slugger

$50 Site Donor 2022
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
1,886
Location
New York
I'm not surprised. While the USA is only about 4% of the world's population, we "sometimes" tend to think that the rest of the world's oil choices are not based in reality. What is true: Oil viscosity in hotter climates is almost always much higher. And that the current trend here is to choose an "energy conserving" oil, even if it reduces engine lifespan.

Again, chains last longest with a viscosity around 30. Cylinders and rings too. Bearings last just fine with almost any viscosity, right up until the load exceeds the film strength.

They often have much lower quality base oils available and synthetics can be exorbitantly expensive. It's not apples-to-apples and never has been and the thick vs. thin debate is the epitome of "first world problems" for Karens. And everyone loves the 20W-50, but no one mentions that it's "SM" rated. No thanks...
 
Last edited:

Jackson_Slugger

$50 Site Donor 2022
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
1,886
Location
New York
It would depend on where the engine was built. I don’t know that answer. Mexico and Flat Rock would have been closer obviously.

Em, no. It's where the engine was designed. I have a Lincoln with the Duratec Cyclone 3.7L. The Ford Duratec was 3.5L but Mazda redesigned it and added about 20-50 HP much like Yamaha did to the old Vulcan and rated it 3.7L. Those "old Ford" engines often run for several hundred thousand miles whether they get 5W-20 MC or 20W-50 Chico's Special mineral oil with no hydrocracking whatsoever. I can't even recall a recent Ford engine that has had significant problems, save for the 3.8L. I previously had a 2.0L Duratec and they are absolutely bulletproof save for the turbocharged ones, but turboing any engine can be iffy but think they are fine...
 

Jackson_Slugger

$50 Site Donor 2022
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
1,886
Location
New York
So you are saying OEM's specify oils based on what is available in the local market, and not what is best for the engine???

Yes. Go on Mexico's Walmart equivalent and see how much a synthetic 0W-20-to-5W-30 costs. Americans are very spoiled when it comes to cheap oil and gas prices...
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2017
Messages
1,123
Location
South Wales, UK
The 3.7L Duratec "Cyclone" was redesigned (from the 3.5L) by Mazda for the Mazda6 series that came out around 2009 as well as the CX-9...

You always get the cool engines in the US!

The Mazda 6 in the UK got pretty poor engine choices by comparison...

First generation Mazda 6 was available with the MZR 1.8, 2.0, 2.3 petrol engines. There was of course the turbocharged 2.3 in the MPS and also a 2.0 4 cylinder diesel.

Second generation Mazda 6 got the same MZR 1.8 and 2.0 engines, plus a 2.5 Skyactiv petrol engine. In addition, was an option of 2.0 or 2.2 diesel engines.

Third generation only had options for a 2.0 or 2.5 Skyactiv petrol engine or a 2.2 diesel that's unfortunately been discontinued.

If the diesel was still available, I'd have probably just purchased one for myself as they are a great looking car.
 
Joined
Feb 27, 2009
Messages
8,049
Location
down in the park
They often have much lower quality base oils available and synthetics can be exorbitantly expensive. It's not apples-to-apples and never has been and the thick vs. thin debate is the epitome of "first world problems" for Karens. And everyone loves the 20W-50, but no one mentions that it's "SM" rated. No thanks...

That would have been the current API spec when the car was released. They won't be using SM in it now.
 

Jackson_Slugger

$50 Site Donor 2022
Joined
Sep 30, 2019
Messages
1,886
Location
New York
You always get the cool engines in the US!

The Mazda 6 in the UK got pretty poor engine choices by comparison...

First generation Mazda 6 was available with the MZR 1.8, 2.0, 2.3 petrol engines. There was of course the turbocharged 2.3 in the MPS and also a 2.0 4 cylinder diesel.

Second generation Mazda 6 got the same MZR 1.8 and 2.0 engines, plus a 2.5 Skyactiv petrol engine. In addition, was an option of 2.0 or 2.2 diesel engines.

Third generation only had options for a 2.0 or 2.5 Skyactiv petrol engine or a 2.2 diesel that's unfortunately been discontinued.

If the diesel was still available, I'd have probably just purchased one for myself as they are a great looking car.

They don't use it anymore except maybe the CX9 SUV. Mazda has gone to the 2.5L NA or Turbo for most of the cars and SUV's here...
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2019
Messages
483
Location
STL, MO
You always get the cool engines in the US!
I don't know if I agree with that. Don't get me wrong, we definitely get so nice options from time to time, but we don't get nearly the amount of choices that you do. Next to zero diesel options, too, which is a shame.
 
Joined
Jun 5, 2003
Messages
25,953
Location
Apple Valley, California
I was raised on 20w-50. My HS auto shop teacher drilled it into our heads that thicker was always better and anything less than a 10w-40 would doom the engine.

I now know that my old race cars would have ran faster on a 10w-30 and ran just as long.
 
Joined
Mar 23, 2003
Messages
1,705
Location
Hopewell, Virginia, USA
When Ford controlled Mazda, Ford pushed thinner oils on Mazda for fuel economy in the US market. As an extreme example, the rotary RX-8 used 10W-40 in other parts of the world such as Australia, but the US spec was 5W-20. My suspicion is that Mazda piston engines likewise had been intended for higher viscosity oils, but Ford dictated lower in North America. This is part of the difference you see with that spec in Colombia.
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2019
Messages
483
Location
STL, MO
When Ford controlled Mazda, Ford pushed thinner oils on Mazda for fuel economy in the US market. As an extreme example, the rotary RX-8 used 10W-40 in other parts of the world such as Australia, but the US spec was 5W-20.
LOL, like a w20 oil was going to help the 13B-MSP become a fuel sipper.
 
Top