Mazda 0w20 W/Moly Oil, 2013 I4 Accord,

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Mazda 0w20 W/Moly Oil (aka MGMO), 2013 I4 Accord, 7113 Miles, 15% OLM The main difference between the driving conditions for this UOA and the last is: 1. No winter driving. 2. Had a 2 week trip to Nova Scotia of about 2,000 miles. The intelligent OLM hit 15% remaining oil life for all the UOAs. The ~ numbers are extrapolated from the approximate miles at 15% and miles when I changed the oil. Blackstone Labs.
Code:
+ -------------+---------+---------+---------------
Date:          06/17/13  04/15/14  11/11/14 
Oil:           Factory   MGMO 	   MGMO
OLM:           15%       ~13%      ~14
Unit Miles:    5853      12504     19617
Oil Miles:     5853      6651      7113
Oil Months:    8.25      10        6.75     

Aluminum(Al):  7         18        10 
Chromium(Cr):  1         1         0
Iron(Fe):      57        49        23
Copper(Cu):    20        8         5
Lead(Pb):      1         0         0
Tin(Sn):       0         3         5
Moly(Mo):      739       625       605
Nickel(Ni):    1         0         0
Manganese      13        13        4
Silver(Ag):    0         0         0
Titanium(Ti):  0         0         0
Potassium(K):  13        6         0
Boron(B):      144       132       134
Silicon(Si):   141       40        17
Sodium(Na):    14        8         5
Calcium:(Ca)   1992      2051      2162
Magnesium(Mg): 15        19        13
Phosphorus(P): 736       689       701
Zinc(Zn)       876       784       799
Barium(Ba):    4         1         0

SUS Vis @210F: 49.7      49.9      53.2
cSt Vis @100C: 7.18      7.25      8.25
cSt Vis @40C:  -         33.601    -
VI             -         188       -

Flashpoint F:  370       405       370
Fuel %:        0.8       <0.5      0.8
Antifreeze:    0.0       0.0       0.0
Water:         0.0       0.0       0.0
Insolubles %   0.2       0.3       0.2
TBN:           1.5       1.5        -  
Mazda 0W-20 with Moly VOA: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...dem#Post2781625 I used 3 different labs for the factory oil UOA. One lab had an error in fuel. For additional info and comments, see: Here Several years of UOAs for my 2003 Accord I4 using 5w20 and 0w20 oils are at: Here All comments are welcome. smile
 
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Why is Tin increasing when all of the other impurities are flushing out? Flash point seems low and TBN was low in the previous runs. I don't have a conclusions but that catches my eye.
 

MikeySoft

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I believe the lower flash point is because of the 0.8% fuel in the oil. I have about a 25 file trip twice a week. Normally I change the oil right after one of these 25 miles trips. However, I did not this time and had several short (<1 miles) trips just before I changed the oil. Most of my trips, other when on vacation or those two 25 miles trip per week, are short. So the fuel in this UOA is most likely the norm. Having a DI engine most likely does not help.
 
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Has some boron in it. Other than the tin, the uoa is not bad. This oil looks like its only a 6500-7500 mile oil at the most. Thanks for posting , i have been curious about this oil.
 
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Tin wear is not good and pretty rare. http://www.cashmanequipment.com/bently/publications/appnotes/app31.php While wear numbers are trending down, it's hard to tell how much are just left over particles from break in and how much of it is from actual daily wear. Personally I'd flush the engine 2-3 times with cheap $2/quart oil after factory fill to get a fresh base line, if I were to invest so much on so many oil analyses. On the face of it, I expected lower wear numbers from the high amount of moly but then again there hasn't been concrete proof that moly can prevent all wear.
 
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Thanks for this.Your the only member that has been testing MGMO. The reversal of the viscosity lose of the prior UOA is encouraging although the 0.8% fuel doesn't jive with the only 1.5% viscosity lose of this UOA. The wear metals are trending nicely and I also have no explanation for Tin showing up; but it is only 5 ppm. All in all a good UOA. MGMO might be a worthy alternative for TGMO after all!
 
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Originally Posted By: HKPolice
Tin wear is not good and pretty rare. http://www.cashmanequipment.com/bently/publications/appnotes/app31.php While wear numbers are trending down, it's hard to tell how much are just left over particles from break in and how much of it is from actual daily wear. Personally I'd flush the engine 2-3 times with cheap $2/quart oil after factory fill to get a fresh base line, if I were to invest so much on so many oil analyses. On the face of it, I expected lower wear numbers from the high amount of moly but then again there hasn't been concrete proof that moly can prevent all wear.
Myron what I've gathered moly has very little effect on wear. Which is strange when you think about it. I figured that a reduction in friction would naturally reduce wear,which isn't necessarily the case. They do affect fuel consumtion though.
 
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Clevy, that's what I've been trying to get across for a decade...friction is wasted energy, and in lubrication, you can waste less energy, but still have greater wear. In hydrodynamics, the lubricants that offer the highest steady state high load protection have greater drag/friction.
 
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Wear metals trending down, that's good. At 5ppm could the tin be noise or just an anomaly? For comparison, here is a 2013 Accord using TGMO: 10k UOA Earth Dreams He started his UOA's a little below where you are in total miles and his wear metals continued to trend down in subsequent UOA's.
 

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Originally Posted By: Several Users
Questions / Comments about the rising Tin
I just got an email reply from Blackstone to the question of rising Tin. They basically said not to worry about it for now, especially with copper and lead being low.
Originally Posted By: k24a4
For comparison, here is a 2013 Accord using TGMO: 10k UOA Earth Dreams He started his UOA's a little below where you are in total miles and his wear metals continued to trend down in subsequent UOA's.
Thanks for the link to the 2013 Accord UOA. I think the main difference is our driving. He took about 6 months to drive about 10,000 miles while I took almost 7 months to drive about 7,000 mile. Actually, when you take out my 2 week 2,000 miles road trip, I drove about 5,000 about the same time he drove 10,000. His UAO looks a lot like my UAOs for my 2003 Accord when I was driving more. Thanks everyone for replying. Additional comments are always welcome.
 
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I'm being picky here but it's below grade, the flashpoint is below 400F, and the wear metals appear way too high for my liking. I like the Mazda oil in my Mazda, but this looks like you have a small wear issue. Maybe you have a small hole in the air filter? Try changing that? I would back down on the OCI to 5000 miles and try either Mobil 1 to see if that remedies the wear, or go up a grade to your favorite 0W-30 to counter the sheering. The TBN going below 2.0 scares me as well, it doesn't do that on my Mazda, so your Honda I4 is harder on oil possibly due the cold weather. Goodluck and keep trying! I think you can improve on it. There's always Amsoil smile
 
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Originally Posted By: Dominic
I'm being picky here but it's below grade, the flashpoint is below 400F, and the wear metals appear way too high for my liking. I like the Mazda oil in my Mazda, but this looks like you have a small wear issue. Maybe you have a small hole in the air filter? Try changing that? I would back down on the OCI to 5000 miles and try either Mobil 1 to see if that remedies the wear, or go up a grade to your favorite 0W-30 to counter the sheering. The TBN going below 2.0 scares me as well, it doesn't do that on my Mazda, so your Honda I4 is harder on oil possibly due the cold weather. Goodluck and keep trying! I think you can improve on it. There's always Amsoil smile
Wear metals way to high? Are you serious. It's the third interval from the factory and all wear metals are trending downwards,so how can they be too high. Not that wear metals in a used oil analysis are in any way an accurate indicator of wear. Some here still don't understand that a used oil analysis tests the oils condition. That's it. If they are being used comprehensively and the data acquired is then applied to the next oci then they are being used properly. However in this case a steady consistent trend hasn't even developed yet,but we have guys posting that wears too high,on an engine that's not broken in. Funny And why would he shorten the interval. The oil isn't showing any signs of oxidative thickening and I didn't see TBN listed so are you using a crystal ball,or the force to come to these conclusions. And are you serious. A small wear issue. The engine is still breaking in. None of the data has stabilized yet,so you don't have any credible info to come to such a conclusion. I realize your new here however you will be held accountable for your statements,just like the rest of us. If you keep posting along these absurd lines you will have effectively painted a target on yourself,and when our forums actual experts choose to correct you I suggest you absorb their message. While your waiting I suggest looking up all posts by Doug hillary. The man is an expert in this particular field and he is the man who taught me to read a used oil analysis properly. I learned by reading his older posts. He is a wealth of ACTUAL,FACTUAL information,not the misguided comments of bias.
 
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- At 19,617 miles his Honda should be plenty broken in. It's on the third oil change! - My own personal wear metals on a much newer engine are lower, and yes I think wear metals are important in an OCI. If you disagree take it up with Blackstone and they will explain it. - I agree on assessing oil condition, a TBN should be run to understand more about the oil condition. However with what I consider to be elevated wear on a very good oil and a lower flash point I would be concerned there is more going on than this simple OCI suggests. Running a shorter OCI and trying other oils is not harmful. At first, do no harm right? - And Clevy, I have been around a while - Registered: 07/04/02 and I mean no harm. I have been reading OCIs a long time. I don't appreciate the personal attack. My opinion is exactly that, an opinion, and the OP can choose to take it or leave it. I suggest you are kinder to others in the future when you disagree. I don't think this is a bad oil analysis, I just think there is room for improvement. I would like my personal oil to have a higher flashpoint and better wear overall. Maybe the Honda I4 with direct injection is a lot harder on oil than my Mazda I4 with direct injection, who knows? smile
 
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I think people like Clevy try to point out the continuous incorrect statements about conclusions that can be drawn from UOA. That you have been on this site for so long and yet made a statement about making wear conclusions from a cheap UOA doesn't help your case. Rereading over and over incorrect statements about UOAs gets tiring.
 
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