Maybe oil doesn't care about our math..

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
May 18, 2009
Messages
761
Location
Sarasota, FL
Like most of u know.. I'm a thin-ish oil kind of guy, my favorite is 0w30 and 0w40.. but today I got thinking about it while driving from school, I have yet to see some engine go to ridiculously high mileage with thin oil! I mean over 500,000+ miles..
All those engines I've seen had somewhat thick oil..

For example..
Mathematically.. you can compress water, but don't try it in real life. Also mathematically.. if you put a smaller exhaust in your car... the gases should just make up for it by flowing faster... but in reality, that doesn't happen and you loose a ton of power.

I'm thinking.. maybe mathematically... thinner oil can provide better protection, but in real life.. oil just doesn't give a a [censored] about our math, thicker just protects better (not ridiculously thick though).
I'm not a genious.. but I guess in evidence alone... I probably won't purchase any 20wt oils, 30wt will be the thinnest, and I will stick to 0w40 which seems like a great compromise of good start-up protection and just the right thickness to protect and get good performance.

What do you'll think?
 
I think another thick vs thin flame war is on the way.


36.gif
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
I think another thick vs thin flame war is on the way.


36.gif



coffee2.gif
<-- I am like this right now but replace the coffee with soup, and the newspaper with my laptop, hahaha.
 
I dont think the engine really notices either way unless you are so far out of spec it isnt funny like 5W20 in a diesel or 20W50 in a DOHC VVT DI 5W20 motor.
 
For the average car to make 500k it would require it to probably be purchased before the time where 20 weights were brought to the everyday consumer market. Now taxis..that's another story.

Even at 50k/year you have to have started in 1999. Even Bill in Utah couldn't do it on 20 weights.
 
It realy depends on application. And it is the application that ends up telling us the oil temperature. It is, then, the temperature that tells us the actual operating viscosity that the bearings, rings and tappets see (+/-).

I further suspect that waking up, driving 3-4 blocks, then get on the interstate, and drive the speed limits for 12 hours a day is the easiest service a motor oil can ever see. Stop and go is worse, heavy loads are worse, high performance driving is worse, sitting around idling is worse,..... But in each of these cases, if you actually keep the oil at a temperature where it is between 8 and 12 centiStokes of viscosity, you will get as much life out of the engine as is possible -- given your application.
 
Originally Posted By: Mitch Alsup
It realy depends on application. And it is the application that ends up telling us the oil temperature. It is, then, the temperature that tells us the actual operating viscosity that the bearings, rings and tappets see (+/-).

I further suspect that waking up, driving 3-4 blocks, then get on the interstate, and drive the speed limits for 12 hours a day is the easiest service a motor oil can ever see. Stop and go is worse, heavy loads are worse, high performance driving is worse, sitting around idling is worse,..... But in each of these cases, if you actually keep the oil at a temperature where it is between 8 and 12 centiStokes of viscosity, you will get as much life out of the engine as is possible -- given your application.


As much as I want to agree on that section... I can't help to think about the 2.6 million mile Volvo that spends so much time driving.. and the guy uses 20W50 and 15w40 diesel rated oil!
Now.. even after reading that I would not run those oils.. I prefer a 0w40 or 5w40, but that Volvo is what got me thinking about this in the first place.
 
Originally Posted By: MrWideTires
I can't help to think about the 2.6 million mile Volvo that spends so much time driving.. and the guy uses 20W50 and 15w40 diesel rated oil!
Now.. even after reading that I would not run those oils.. I prefer a 0w40 or 5w40, but that Volvo is what got me thinking about this in the first place.


I think you have to factor in the engine itself...Volvo's B18 is a very stout push rod arrangement. I'm pretty sure that 15w40 is recommended in those older engines.

And for the record, I am often scorned in the Volvo community for using 5W30 year round in a red block.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: MarkC
I'm thinking Gary is saying that enough time hasn't elapsed since 20 weights came out for anybody to have put 500K miles on an engine using them yet?


+1
 
Originally Posted By: speedyswede
Originally Posted By: MrWideTires
I can't help to think about the 2.6 million mile Volvo that spends so much time driving.. and the guy uses 20W50 and 15w40 diesel rated oil!
Now.. even after reading that I would not run those oils.. I prefer a 0w40 or 5w40, but that Volvo is what got me thinking about this in the first place.


I think you have to factor in the engine itself...Volvo's B18 is a very stout push rod arrangement. I'm pretty sure that 15w40 is recommended in those older engines.

And for the record, I am often scorned in the Volvo community for using 5W30 year round in a red block.


Won't hurt it.

Every Volvo that I work on gets 5w30 year round. (Except for my two. I refuse to run semi-syn Castrol 5w30 in my car.)
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: MrWideTires
Originally Posted By: Mitch Alsup
It realy depends on application. And it is the application that ends up telling us the oil temperature. It is, then, the temperature that tells us the actual operating viscosity that the bearings, rings and tappets see (+/-).

I further suspect that waking up, driving 3-4 blocks, then get on the interstate, and drive the speed limits for 12 hours a day is the easiest service a motor oil can ever see. Stop and go is worse, heavy loads are worse, high performance driving is worse, sitting around idling is worse,..... But in each of these cases, if you actually keep the oil at a temperature where it is between 8 and 12 centiStokes of viscosity, you will get as much life out of the engine as is possible -- given your application.


As much as I want to agree on that section... I can't help to think about the 2.6 million mile Volvo that spends so much time driving.. and the guy uses 20W50 and 15w40 diesel rated oil!
Now.. even after reading that I would not run those oils.. I prefer a 0w40 or 5w40, but that Volvo is what got me thinking about this in the first place.


I run 15W-40 Diesel rated oil in my BMW during the summer.
 
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I pretty much run 20W50 or 15W50 year round. I`d love to try PP 15W50 but I never see it.


Why not try a 5w50??
 
I had a 2002 Honda CRV 4cyl that was speced 5w20. I tried PP 5w30 and could notice the sluggishness versus the PP 5w20. On 5w20 it had more mechanical noise but ran really well.
 
Originally Posted By: MrWideTires
but today I got thinking about it while driving from school, I have yet to see some engine go to ridiculously high mileage with thin oil! I mean over 500,000+ miles..
All those engines I've seen had somewhat thick oil..

Good 0w-30 and 0w-40 oils, and the cars that take them, haven't been around long enough.


Originally Posted By: MrWideTires
For example..
Mathematically.. you can compress water, but don't try it in real life. Also mathematically.. if you put a smaller exhaust in your car... the gases should just make up for it by flowing faster... but in reality, that doesn't happen and you loose a ton of power.

You can compress water... a tiny bit. The amount is so small that it is insignificant in most circumstances. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

The smaller exhaust thing only works to a point. In other words, you're ignoring most of the math.
wink.gif
If you see a car lose power by going smaller, that just means they're past the point at which smaller is better. It doesn't mean the math fails to describe reality.


Originally Posted By: MrWideTires
I'm not a genious.. but I guess in evidence alone... I probably won't purchase any 20wt oils, 30wt will be the thinnest, and I will stick to 0w40 which seems like a great compromise of good start-up protection and just the right thickness to protect and get good performance.

What do you'll think?

I think oil isn't a one-size-fits-all thing. Manufacturers spend millions and millions of dollars figuring this stuff out, so if they say thin oil works better, there's probably something to it.
wink.gif
 
Wasn't the inaugral Mobil 1 a 20 wgt? And wasn't it 25k/yr guaranteed. But don't know of any 500k testimonials on it.

IMHO the data to date is sufficient to say a 20wt goes as far as any other wgt as long as the app is appropriate.
 
This is exactly why I like Redline oils so much.

You get the HTHS of the next higher viscosity with the flow of a lower viscosity. IMO, it makes running a different summer and winter oil obsolete. Sort of the best of both worlds.

Still, if I were forced to run either a 20wt or a 40wt in the TL it would be the 40wt hands down. There's just too much evidence out there that points to thicker oils protecting better especially in highly loaded engines.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top