Marvel Mystery Oil

[kschachn]

The general comeback here seems to be, among other things, is that there are other common products that might work just as well, and accomplish the same thing as MMO. Which could also be true.

If they want to strain the vinegar out of Heinz Ketchup, using Charmin Double Ply Bathroom tissue, and apply that to gunked up piston rings, using Q-Tips rotated counter clockwise, I say go for it. It's easier to just dump in a bottle of MMO.

And now, thanks to you guys, if my gas gauge takes a crap, I'm going to grab a bottle of MMO. Perhaps it will fix it the same way, that it settled down the idle on my chain saw..... I didn't have any Heinz in the fridge, and Charmin makes my butt itch. And no, I don't have a detailed data report from MIT as to why. It just does.

That pretty well sums up the entire thread.

 

[zrxkawboy]

Used MMO to free up slugged and noisy lifters in old flat tappet engines. Used it also to decarbonize pistons and combustion chambers on those older engines. FWIW automatic trans fluid will do just as well.

Which detergents does ATF contain, that motor oil does not already contain in much higher concentrations?

 

[PontiacHO]

Which detergents does ATF contain, that motor oil does not already contain in much higher concentrations?

I don’t know so some of the others here can weigh in. It worked 40 years ago so all of what I say and refer to is likely to be irrelevant. Edit: To clarify, this wasn’t that I poured MMO or trans fluid in the fuel tank…poured either in the crankcase to correct stuck lifter or in the intake to decarbonize pistons & combustion chambers. Smokes like a freight train but works. Have disassembled several engines after these treatments and witnessed firsthand the cleaning effects. Again probably doesn’t apply in today’s world.

 

[CleanSump]

I don’t know so some of the others here can weigh in. It worked 40 years ago so all of what I say and refer to is likely to be irrelevant. Edit: To clarify, this wasn’t that I poured MMO or trans fluid in the fuel tank…poured either in the crankcase to correct stuck lifter or in the intake to decarbonize pistons & combustion chambers. Smokes like a freight train but works. Have disassembled several engines after these treatments and witnessed firsthand the cleaning effects. Again probably doesn’t apply in today’s world.

Not much.
Here's a pretty typical one.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...icle-automatic-transmission-fluid-atf.322579/
And here's a whole sub-forum dedicated to the subject, righ here on BITOG!
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/forums/gear-transmission-used-virgin-oil-analysis.47/

Well now you know!
The "lots of detergent in ATF" myth is just sad.
Maybe back when it had sperm whale oil in it, the sperm whale oil, which is super killer ester, did the job. Today, you're just adding thin oil.

 

[OVERKILL]

Used MMO to free up slugged and noisy lifters in old flat tappet engines. Used it also to decarbonize pistons and combustion chambers on those older engines. FWIW automatic trans fluid will do just as well.

Trans fluid is not a cleaner, in fact it has nothing in it that would make it a good cleaner because transmissions don't generate combustion byproducts.

 

[OVERKILL]

If scientific proof is needed, go to the lab and demand it there. This is a forum where real owners share real world results. I know enough engineers to know how often their highly calculated lab-perfect results "in controlled environment" get absolutely crushed once equipment sees real world use. So I choose to base my opinions on product from my own experience, or real-world experiences shared by others.

Technically this is the ATF forum, not the additives forum though

 

[Graham Piccinini]

Technically this is the ATF forum, not the additives forum though

Not claiming it to be an additive forum. I always consider BITOG a forum for all things related to automotive fluids.

 

[PontiacHO]

Again 40+ (started in 1977) year old experience while working as a service technician for Chevrolet. My disclaimer is and always will be that my results may be irrelevant in today’s world. I do wonder however if the folks that are so quick to point out how wrong my observations are have actually spent any time turning wrenches for a paycheck?? Furthermore working as an automotive Technician with a commission based pay structure where every minute had to be justified from a labor aspect??? Have any of you had a vehicle assigned to you at 7:00 am that needed a crankshaft replacement and the customer drove the car home at 5:00 pm the same day? Working on engine & drivetrain issues minutes after the vehicle had been driven on the road at full blown operating temperature? Resolving problems as quickly as possible in order to flag labor for commission pay to move on to the next vehicle whatever the issue was…brakes, electrical, suspension, leaks, squeaks, rattles, engine, trans, HVAC, drivability, on and one and so forth…..Just wondering??

 

[Donald]

Have you seen tell of damage or negative affects by MMO? I'm not arguing, just curious.

There is a published test of the lubricity of diesel fuel, the test adding MMO was worse than just plain diesel fuel. Adding TCW-3 results were pretty good. The test is HFRR. In my thinking if adding MMO to diesel fuel makes the lubricity worse, then it cannot be good to add it to motor oil.

Using is to free up a rusted seized pistons is the only use I think it's good for.

 

[OVERKILL]

Not claiming it to be an additive forum. I always consider BITOG a forum for all things related to automotive fluids.

Well, additives tend to get blasted outside the additives forum, that's why I mentioned it. @MolaKule even posted an analysis of what is in MMO at one point.

Laboratory Analysis of MMO

While not a PCMO or HDD Oil, here is the latest analysis: Marvel Mystery Oil - Analysis by University lab (Any element with 2 ppm or lower is not reported) Phos - 631 ppm Use: Anti-wear Potassium – 60 ppm USE: Buffer and weak detergent. Viscosity – 2.3 cSt@100C, 7.9 cSt@40C Comment...

bobistheoilguy.com

It's an extremely light carrier oil with kerosene and a bit of phosphorous and potassium basically. Was likely good as a cleaner back when it was first introduced and oils were less robust than they are today. There are better fuel system cleaners on the market, that's the gist of the thread if you hadn't read it.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

Well, additives tend to get blasted outside the additive's forum, that's why I mentioned it. @MolaKule even posted an analysis of what is in MMO at one point.

Laboratory Analysis of MMO

While not a PCMO or HDD Oil, here is the latest analysis: Marvel Mystery Oil - Analysis by University lab (Any element with 2 ppm or lower is not reported) Phos - 631 ppm Use: Anti-wear Potassium – 60 ppm USE: Buffer and weak detergent. Viscosity – 2.3 cSt@100C, 7.9 cSt@40C Comment...

bobistheoilguy.com

It's an extremely light carrier oil with kerosene and a bit of phosphorous and potassium basically. Was likely good as a cleaner back when it was first introduced and oils were less robust than they are today. There are better fuel system cleaners on the market, that's the gist of the thread if you hadn't read it.

Thank You. You always come up with the straight up / no bull truth. Really appreciate your way of finding the info and sharing it. One of the main reasons I joined up here after reading BITOG for years. Seemed 90% times I web searched an auto or lubrication ... boom BITOG! popped up.

Sorry to say I enjoy (drives some insane) all those who share stories from days turning wrenches and tips and things they all learned. Someone pointed out to me when first here "we not here for, don't care what your 71 Mustang ran at the track after you reduced tire pressure etc..." Ok, get that SOME feel that way. Its easy to forget we not all old timers. But can tell there are many highly experienced on BITOG I look forward to their continued sharing.

 

[OVERKILL]

Thank You. You always come up with the straight up / no bull truth. Really appreciate your way of finding the info and sharing it. One of the main reasons I joined up here after reading BITOG for years. Seemed 90% times I web searched an auto or lubrication ... boom BITOG! popped up.

Sorry to say I enjoy (drives some insane) all those who share stories from days turning wrenches and tips and things they all learned. Someone pointed out to me when first here "we not here for, don't care what your 71 Mustang ran at the track after you reduced tire pressure etc..." Ok, get that SOME feel that way. Its easy to forget we not all old timers. But can tell there are many highly experienced on BITOG I look forward to their continued sharing.

You are quite welcome!

I have no problem with the "back in the day" stories, heck I've shared a few of my own! But I think it important that we keep things in context, which often gets lost in the lore. Many of these stories about "magic fixes" revolve around the perceived result, not the mechanism(s) that might have been in play. Because of this, we end up seeing these repeated when they are no longer relevant, like the ATF one for example.

Allow me to elaborate: "Back in the day" ATF had sperm whale oil in it. This is no longer the case. That's an ester, and would have had some form of cleaning property, though that wasn't the intention with its inclusion (which was friction modification). ATF was, and is, thin, about an xW-20 or so typically. So, it had two things going for it: It was thin when folks were running generally heavier oils, and despite a lack of detergents and dispersants, it had a component that might have provided some cleaning capability, particularly given how poorly (relative to today) oils were formulated at the time.

Of course whaling was banned in the mid 80's and the phasing out of whale oil had started before that.

That's the genesis of that tale, but I hear it repeated still to this day because folks don't know WHY ATF was an effective cleaner 40+ years ago, if they did, and knew the history, they'd know why it isn't one now. The former SM at my Chrysler dealer told me ATF was a cleaner too, lol, so the story still has legs.

I don't need to get into the history on MMO, because pretty much all of it is covered in the thread I linked, including its ability to scavenge lead.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

You are quite welcome!

I have no problem with the "back in the day" stories, heck I've shared a few of my own! But I think it important that we keep things in context, which often gets lost in the lore. Many of these stories about "magic fixes" revolve around the perceived result, not the mechanism(s) that might have been in play. Because of this, we end up seeing these repeated when they are no longer relevant, like the ATF one for example.

Allow me to elaborate: "Back in the day" ATF had sperm whale oil in it. This is no longer the case. That's an ester, and would have had some form of cleaning property, though that wasn't the intention with its inclusion (which was friction modification). ATF was, and is, thin, about an xW-20 or so typically. So, it had two things going for it: It was thin when folks were running generally heavier oils, and despite a lack of detergents and dispersants, it had a component that might have provided some cleaning capability, particularly given how poorly (relative to today) oils were formulated at the time.

Of course whaling was banned in the mid 80's and the phasing out of whale oil had started before that.

That's the genesis of that tale, but I hear it repeated still to this day because folks don't know WHY ATF was an effective cleaner 40+ years ago, if they did, and knew the history, they'd know why it isn't one now. The former SM at my Chrysler dealer told me ATF was a cleaner too, lol, so the story still has legs.

I don't need to get into the history on MMO, because pretty much all of it is covered in the thread I linked, including its ability to scavenge lead.

totally agree. we are so fortunate today with modern automobiles. most folks only need to know where to pump the fuel and where to put the key in. we are leaps and bounds ahead of just 20 years ago. its easy to forget there is a diverse age group here. many younger folk I imagine can care less about how it was, what it took, what you needed to know to take care of your own car years past. I totally realize things we did in the past are falling by the wayside and become irrelevant as thing change and improve all the time. Technology is moving so fast in fact I am getting left behind quite often. LOL. I only partake in new technology when forced to as what I was using gets eliminated. I guess I am at that age now. Does not take much to satisfy me. Part of it was working days somehow I was always the one forced to learn what ever was new and then I had to train folks. I think that burned me out. Once retired I backed away from it all as much as one can these days.

 

[CleanSump]

Again 40+ (started in 1977) year old experience while working as a service technician for Chevrolet. My disclaimer is and always will be that my results may be irrelevant in today’s world. I do wonder however if the folks that are so quick to point out how wrong my observations are have actually spent any time turning wrenches for a paycheck?? Furthermore working as an automotive Technician with a commission based pay structure where every minute had to be justified from a labor aspect??? Have any of you had a vehicle assigned to you at 7:00 am that needed a crankshaft replacement and the customer drove the car home at 5:00 pm the same day? Working on engine & drivetrain issues minutes after the vehicle had been driven on the road at full blown operating temperature? Resolving problems as quickly as possible in order to flag labor for commission pay to move on to the next vehicle whatever the issue was…brakes, electrical, suspension, leaks, squeaks, rattles, engine, trans, HVAC, drivability, on and one and so forth…..Just wondering??

No one is poo pooing your experience.
Times change though. 45 years of turning wrenches or teaching people to turn wrenches on jet aircraft here. The tricks I learned with F-4s in the 1970s really don't apply to F-35s.
Cars pretty much the same idea. Somethings were great in the day, but not so great now.
Today's Trans fluids have little in the way of additives that will clean an internal combustion engine. That is indisputable fact. That's not a criticism of people who used for that in the 1970s. Nostalgia doesn't fix today's stuff though.

 

[PontiacHO]

No one is poo pooing your experience.
Times change though. 45 years of turning wrenches or teaching people to turn wrenches on jet aircraft here. The tricks I learned with F-4s in the 1970s really don't apply to F-35s.
Cars pretty much the same idea. Somethings were great in the day, but not so great now.
Today's Trans fluids have little in the way of additives that will clean an internal combustion engine. That is indisputable fact. That's not a criticism of people who used for that in the 1970s. Nostalgia doesn't fix today's stuff though.

Thank you Daddy! Question: What is a super intelligent aircraft EXPERT like yourself frequenting a lowly forum dedicated to automotive lubricants?

 

[CleanSump]

Learning from people like Molekule and Overkill who know know more about oil than I do.
What are you here for? To tell everyone about your great experience as a mech?
Never mind. Point made, but not understood.

 

[teh60]

Again 40+ (started in 1977) year old experience while working as a service technician for Chevrolet. My disclaimer is and always will be that my results may be irrelevant in today’s world. I do wonder however if the folks that are so quick to point out how wrong my observations are have actually spent any time turning wrenches for a paycheck?? Furthermore working as an automotive Technician with a commission based pay structure where every minute had to be justified from a labor aspect??? Have any of you had a vehicle assigned to you at 7:00 am that needed a crankshaft replacement and the customer drove the car home at 5:00 pm the same day? Working on engine & drivetrain issues minutes after the vehicle had been driven on the road at full blown operating temperature? Resolving problems as quickly as possible in order to flag labor for commission pay to move on to the next vehicle whatever the issue was…brakes, electrical, suspension, leaks, squeaks, rattles, engine, trans, HVAC, drivability, on and one and so forth…..Just wondering??

I started about the same time as a service tech for about 40 years. I worked on the flat rate system and loved it. I can relate to what you're saying.

 

[M56959]

Topic question was answered, going in circles and bickering