Marvel Mystery Oil or Rislone?

[dragboat]

Instead of using 5/30 oil in winter temps of 35 degrees what are your thoughts of thinning 10/30 a tad with either one of these? Rpm never over 3500.But Rislone has a base oil in it,,so might take that out of the actual question Just curious

 

[csandste]

I actually cleaned the carburator in a 1987 Nova using MMO-- it does smell good. In the good old days I've even poured some into the oil. Not sure what you'd gain by substituting it for 5W30, however, other than spending more money.

 

[dragboat]

It's a solvent,should clean the motor to an extent? Are you certain you cleaned the carb on a 1987 Nova? Just razzin ya on the typo! [ June 11, 2002, 06:50 PM: Message edited by: dragboat ]

 

[Al]

I wouldn't use it in the oil dude. You really can't predict how the newer generation additives will work with that stuff that has not changed for probably 25 years. I do use it(MMO) now and again in gasoline. Basically for injector lub (which probably isn't necessary) it gives me slightly greater gas milage.

 

[dragboat]

Al, Speaking of a lube in gasoline,I have a intank fuel pump going out,,that Lucas Fuel treatmnt stops the noise.Guess it lubricates the pump as well.Should help make a pump last longer if used early on

 

[sprintman]

Dragboat, I'm trialling Lucas UCL too. Pretty impressive stuff, fuel economy has improved and I saw Bob's test re acid neutralisation which was good too.

 

[Bror Jace]

I think most guys here would agree that if you want the performance of a certain weight of oil (say, 5W30), start with that weight. Fooling around with garage chemistry is not likely to produce a better low temperature lubricant than what is currently available right out of the bottle. I have a friend of mine who has a couple cases of 20W50 he used to use in a real oil burner. If he were to still have that car around (it had over 200,000 hard miles on it and was missing an oil control ring or two) and he were to use some MMO in it in the wintertime, I suppose that would be OK. He’s making the best of a less-than-perfect situation. There was a time, 15-20+ years ago when straight grades were the most common and adding Marvel Mystery Oil to a straight 20 or 30 weight might have made that old Roadmaster, Galaxy or Fury a little easier to turn over in the winter mornings. That seems perfectly fine. But now, how would adding MMO affect the volatility of the base oil? Would the resulting concoction still pass the SJ or SL tests? What about once the engine reaches operating temperature. It is possible, as most of us know, for the engine to overheat in the winter as cooling systems freeze if the coolant isn’t fresh or properly mixed. Oh, and who hasn’t had snow and ice packed into their radiator on occasion? As AL suggests, might the MMO upset the existing additive package balance? Has anyone looked at the MSDS sheet for MMO lately? Exactly what is the pour/pumpability points for that stuff? Is it really below some of the synthetic 5W30 or 0W30? Could it flow at –70F or below? What about flash point? Shouldn’t it be low … like 350F or less? After all, this stuff should burn in a cylinder along with fuel … or you might end up with a really nasty mess in there after just a few thousand miles. However, if you are adding a moderate amount (4oz in 10 gallons) of MMO to the FUEL tank of a carbureted machine, I’m in complete agreement. I’ve seen this stuff improve fuel economy (about 3%) and eliminate crankcase oil consumption in engines which had experienced moderate consumption before. I can only guess that valve seats and other wear areas which are continuously bathed in fuel will experience longer life as well. But, I wouldn’t add it to engines which are fuel injected and/or have sensitive emissions equipment. The slight added benefit simply isn’t worth the risk of clogging an injector or fouling a sensor. Since my experience with diesels is almost nonexistent, what I said above applies to gasoline motors only. Sorry, I have no experience using Rislone products.

 

[MolaKule]

Think about these points: 1. MMO and Rislone are solvents in a mineral carrier. Many of these solvents are lighter fractions of petroleum, and will thin-out your engine oil. 2. Read any can of Gunk Flush or Amsoil Motor Flush and you will see all kinds of solvents listed as ingredients (maybe). Anyway, the point is they are a mixture of different solvents and possibly detergents/dispersants. 3. Some state not to run engine over 1500 rpm or drive with this stuff in the engine. 4. Therefore, unless you're cleaning the engine to change oil, why use these solvents? You are going to have, as a result, a thinner motor and a modified additive chemistry that may be harmful. 5. Most blenders and oil companies state in technical sheets not to add aftermarket additives and there is good reason - afternarket additives change the delicate balance of additve chemistry.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

Bob, I know there was another thread referencing some of these points. Molakule has issues with running an engine with "solvents" original poster pondered using. You like to recommend 'neutra 131' for engine cleaning as an alternative to AUTO-RX. Can you reconcile using 'neutra 131' with Molakule's concerns? Thanks in advance.

 

[BOBISTHEOILGUY]

groucho, I really can't as I am not a chemist unlike molakule and frank. What I have gone by was schaeffers chemist and schaeffer has always recommended to purge engines before putting in new oil. I have guys been with schaeffers many years, have used neutra 131 in many applications, from thier experience, I started, and have come to find out that it has some remarkable results. I can tell you I don't go around telling people it's going to get the engine to look like new, just clean. Anyway, I used the neutra on my own car last oil change and it had no ill effects on my oil analysis so if it is a degertent like some, I don't think i could have run that well over 4000 miles in my oil. oil anaysis is on analysis board under 10k schaeffers 15w40..etc..

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

Thanks Bob.

 

[driven2services]

quote:

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Originally posted by dragboat: Instead of using 5/30 oil in winter temps of 35 degrees what are your thoughts of thinning 10/30 a tad with either one of these? Rpm never over 3500.But Rislone has a base oil in it,,so might take that out of the actual question Just curious

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Among other problems, the thinned oil will no longer meet the 30 wt. visc spec when hot. Ken

 

[jjbula]

quote:

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Originally posted by dragboat: Instead of using 5/30 oil in winter temps of 35 degrees what are your thoughts of thinning 10/30 a tad with either one of these? Rpm never over 3500.But Rislone has a base oil in it,,so might take that out of the actual question Just curious

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I assume you mean +35F. You could even run a 15w50 at those temps. I know you're concerned about pumpability but I read somewhere that as you get under 0F the force required to move oil doubles every 5 degrees the temp decreases. Maybe Molakule can help me here. The need for a 10wX doesn't crop up until 20 F at the earliest. (For those ultra worried about pumpability) Those of you always worried about pumpability, back me up here or school me, please Likewise 5wX isn't needed until 10 F for the same folks. Some would argue 10wX is good to 0F and 5w to -20. API specs say even lower! But I don't trust them. IMHO the Owner's manuals support of the numbers above should work fine. [ August 10, 2002, 09:46 AM: Message edited by: jjbula ]

 

[MolaKule]

Groucho, "Can you reconcile using 'neutra 131' with Molakule's concerns?" I was mainly concerned about leaving Risilone or other solvent in the oil and driving with it and the change in viscosity that would result, and the possible change in additive chemistry. I haven't used Neutra yet (but will be) to test it for myself. I would not be concerned with using any cleaning product immediately before an oil change; its that I just don't get the warm fuzzies about driving around with it in my oil. After all, that why I attempt to buy a fully formlated oil with all the goodies already in the oil. Now as far as the Schaeffer's Fm (multi-organometallic barrier) additive - and I think I stated this before on another post - I haven't seen any reason one could not add this to a hydraulic or engine oil if someone wanted an extra barrier additive. I have done my own independant investigation of this additive mix and think its one of the best. I intend to do some further testing with this additive in hydraulic oils and engine oils.

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by jjbula:

quote:

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Originally posted by dragboat: Instead of using 5/30 oil in winter temps of 35 degrees what are your thoughts of thinning 10/30 a tad with either one of these? Rpm never over 3500.But Rislone has a base oil in it,,so might take that out of the actual question Just curious

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I assume you mean +35F. You could even run a 15w50 at those temps. I know you're concerned about pumpability but I read somewhere that as you get under 0F the force required to move oil doubles every 5 degrees the temp decreases. Maybe Molakule can help me here. The need for a 10wX doesn't crop up until 20 F at the earliest. (For those ultra worried about pumpability) Those of you always worried about pumpability, back me up here or school me, please Likewise 5wX isn't needed until 10 F for the same folks. Some would argue 10wX is good to 0F and 5w to -20.

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Looking at the specs on a lot of good 10w30s, they'll flow even lower than that. Mobil 1 10w30 has a pour point of -49F, and Shaeffers 10w30 will also flow down very well at that same temperature too. So I personally still don't see the need for 5w30 at all based on this. It'll never ever get anywhere near that cold where I live. And I venture to say it doesn't often get to -49F in too many places in North America. If so, it'll happen maybe once or twice a year at the most.

 

[csandste]

"Are you certain you cleaned the carb on a 1987 Nova? Just razzin ya on the typo!" Yup-- had to check. 87 was the last year for the 2bbl Aisan carb. on Corollas and Novas. Went to injection in 88. Anyway I found some left over MMO and poured a bit into the tank of my Elantra. Interestingly enough the MMO bottle talks about carbs. and fuel pumps, while their web page makes claims about cleaning fuel injectors. Probably nothing but kerosene, food coloring and perfume, but it's the best smelling additive ever.

 

[dragboat]

jjbula, no that was not a typo,I was speaking of 3500 RPM and NO I do not contemplate using this product,the board was young,not many posts so posted this to have more than three threads,thought it would die a slow death but it still is coming up,,ask Bob,I mailed him way back that I would post stuff to get some things going on the board as at the time it was stagnate. I used the Rislone every winter in my truck for 20 years or so without any obvious problems,had 210K" maybe more I forget" when sold,running great Marvel Mystery oil is a surfactent with who knows what else in it. I have taken and soaked the cylinders down through the intake and spark plug holes and let set,crank and set for periods of 30+ hours and found it seems to effectively remove carbon and give a a power gain. In the old days the label said something to the effect if it was burnt in the ring area the result would be a harmless residue or something to that effect that would still lubricate,I beleive it was a disclaimer of sorts but has been ommited from the labels found now. That alone might tell the flash point is low,just guessing. It states on the front label" Marvel Mystery oil since 1923 Ultimate in engine protection" 79 years later,it's still a mystery! I bet it was used successfully to help cold oil from congealing in the early days,except I don't know what causes oil to congeal,never heard of a anti congealing additive in a oil ,guessing others don't either considering no answers to my post about gelled oil down below I have thrown some in the gas tank before long pulls with the truck before but now have discovered the Lucas fuel treatment,, I get a great deal on it through some friends and have noticed some positives already,I only bought it as a upper cylinder lube to use on a new car while breaking in,now using it 3 tanks then one without I think somone spoke of it smelling good? It don't hold a candle to the Auto -RX .That does not smell like a motor oil additive I smelled before. Patman,your thoughts on the smell of the RX? So no,dragboat is not a closet MMoil user [ August 14, 2002, 07:38 PM: Message edited by: dragboat ]

 

[Patman]

Hehe, I never smelled the Auto-rx when I put it in. I still have the empty bottle in the garage, maybe I'll go down and give it a whiff later on!

 

[dickwells]

I cannot remember where, but sometime I read that MMo contains witch hazel oil. I guess I could get some of that and see if it smells similar. RW