manual says 10w-30 or 5w-30. can i use 0w-30?

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Southern California
The simplistic answer is Yes. All Xw-30 oils have the approximately the same viscosity at operating temperature. The trade off is a 0W-30 oil may not hold its viscosity as well as say a 10w-30 oil over time.
 

Patman

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0w30 oils aren't always just for cold climates though. In the case of the German Castrol, this is an oil that compares to most 10w30 in terms of it's summertime cold viscosity. What I mean is that it's viscosity at 40c, being 68.5, is actually the same or thicker than most 10w30s (M1 10w30 is 61.3cst at 40c for instane). So it's not like this stuff is thinner, just that when it gets super cold, it can flow better. So don't paint all 0w oils the same. Look at 0w40 Mobil 1 also, it's viscosity at 40c is 80.3, so it's not thin either, it compares to a lot of 10w40s out there. The 0w number scares a lot of people away, but it shouldn't. I wouldn't personally use 0w30 M1 though, even though it's viscosity at 40c is actually slightly thicker than their 5w30.
 

Al

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Elizabethtown, Pa
quote:
Originally posted by 2K2AcuraTL: Thanks Patman for putting a better view on the 0Wxx. [HAIL 2 U!] I am still on the learning curve.. Jean [Cheers!]
What Patman says is true- But in general terms, a 10W-30 dino oil will generally hold grade better than a 0W or 5W. And in a true synthetic like Redline, Amsoil, Mobil 1, Poyal Purple. The differences in viscosities at 40 C. are small. So why even go with the 0W/5W [I dont know] . They need more polymer "goo" than the 10W. This "goo" is more prone to shearing down and leaving you with a thinner oil. Again not taking any issue with Patman. Its just my feeling on the subject. [Smile]
 
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I'd estimate about 75% of my gas engine customers have been running the Amsoil 0w-30 down here in Alabama for the past eight years. Most are running change intervals of 10k-15k miles. No issues at all with wear or oil consumption. I consider a "properly formulated" 0w-30 synthetic to be interchangable with a 5w-30 or 10w-30 grade. TooSlick
 

Patman

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quote:
Originally posted by Al:
quote:
Originally posted by 2K2AcuraTL: Thanks Patman for putting a better view on the 0Wxx. [HAIL 2 U!] I am still on the learning curve.. Jean [Cheers!]
What Patman says is true- But in general terms, a 10W-30 dino oil will generally hold grade better than a 0W or 5W. And in a true synthetic like Redline, Amsoil, Mobil 1, Poyal Purple. The differences in viscosities at 40 C. are small. So why even go with the 0W/5W [I dont know] . They need more polymer "goo" than the 10W. This "goo" is more prone to shearing down and leaving you with a thinner oil. Again not taking any issue with Patman. Its just my feeling on the subject. [Smile]

I agree with what you are saying Al, but in the case of the 0w30 Castrol, they don't make a 5w30 or 10w30 in this same German formula, if they did, I'd definitely consider that instead. And in the case of Mobil 1 0w40, they don't make a 5w40 or 10w40, if they did, those two would be more stable oils also. In the case of Mobil 1 0w30 I would definitely run their 5w30 or 10w30 over that. But I believe in the future we'll see more and more 0w30s and 5w40s out there, and they'll be more shear stable too. I was a diehard 10w30 only type of a guy up until recently. I'd never believe that I'd be running all over town scooping up bottles of 0w30 like it was going out of style! [Smile] [ April 17, 2003, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]
 
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Location
SC
quote:
Originally posted by Al: But in general terms, a 10W-30 dino oil will generally hold grade better than a 0W or 5W. And in a true synthetic like Redline, Amsoil, Mobil 1, Poyal Purple. The differences in viscosities at 40 C. are small. So why even go with the 0W/5W [I dont know] . They need more polymer "goo" than the 10W. This "goo" is more prone to shearing down and leaving you with a thinner oil. Again not taking any issue with Patman. Its just my feeling on the subject. [Smile]
For PAO/ester synthetics, this isn't necessarily true. As it's been pointed out many times on this forum, the high natural VI of PAO and ester basestocks obviates the need for much (if any) VI improver in synthetic motor oils. It is quite possible through the selection of base oils to blend a 0w30 or 0w40 oil that uses no more polymner VI improver (what you are calling "goo") than a 5w30 or 10w30 synthetic of the same brand.
 
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Eckville, Alberta
I run Petro-Canada Duron XL 0W-30 in a VW TDI and a Ford F150 with a I6. They both run 15k oil changes and I have no problems. The F150 spends a fair bit of time with a stock trailer behind it and gets the p**s reved out of it. I drive this one hard. There is 1 side effect; I don't hear any valve clatter anymore when it's cold. HL
 
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Location
Loveland, Colorado
quote:
Originally posted by Scooter: ... The trade off is a 0W-30 oil may not hold its viscosity as well as say a 10w-30 oil over time.
quote:
Originally posted by Al: ... a 10W-30 dino oil will generally hold grade better than a 0W or 5W.
From what I've seen in the UOAs, most folks aren't going to run their oil more than 4k-5k miles. Even if it's a premium full syn. In that short of an interval, any Group IV xW-30 should hold grade, & be OK to use in a moderate climate.
 

Jay

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Idaho Falls, ID
quote:
Originally posted by khager: Excuse me but where in the heck is Oh-Shun-Syde, Killa Kali?
Oceanside, CA The reason you might run M1 0w-30 over 5w-30 or 10w-30 in a warm climate is better gas mileage. You really do see a little improvement over M1 5w-30. Shear-stability is not an issue. Volatility is. Honda's K20A2 and K20A3 will burn this oil.
 
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Chattanooga, TN
I started teh 0W30 Amsoil in one engeine about two years ago. Change it once a year with filter at 6 months and ave about 7-9000 miles a year. Analysis has been fine with this oil. Hot here in the summer in VA, but mild winters, don't need the 0W but it does appear to hold up slightly better then the 10W Amsoil I use in other engines. Oh, engine calls for a 5W but I have used the 10W and now the 0W with no problems [ April 17, 2003, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: Spector ]
 

Patman

Staff member
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Oakville, Ontario
quote:
Originally posted by Jay: The reason you might run M1 0w-30 over 5w-30 or 10w-30 in a warm climate is better gas mileage. You really do see a little improvement over M1 5w-30. Shear-stability is not an issue. Volatility is. Honda's K20A2 and K20A3 will burn this oil.
I can't see how Mobil 1 0w30 will get better gas mileage in warm weather than their 5w30. Looking at their viscosity specs, they are so similar, if anything the 0w30 would get worse mileage in the summer since it's slightly thicker at operating temp and at 40c. In the summer your oil is going to be pretty close to 40c already even on a "cold" start. Honestly though, I think both oils would be virtually equal in MPG. 0w30 vis at 40c is 54.8 5w30 vis at 40c is 53.7 0w30 vis at 100c is 10.1 5w30 vis at 100c is 9.7 [ April 17, 2003, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]
 

MolaKule

Staff member
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Iowegia - USA
quote:
Excuse me but where in the heck is Oh-Shun-Syde, Killa Kali?
I suspect it is really Oceanside, California. You know, surfers, Beach Boys, tall blondes, woodies with surf boards on top, Annette Funicello.... BTW, we DO have surfing here in Doo-Dah land. Gotta put some Schaeffer's 132 on my surf board before I go out on Saturday. [ April 17, 2003, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
 

Jay

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1,607
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Idaho Falls, ID
quote:
Originally posted by Patman: I can't see how Mobil 1 0w30 will get better gas mileage in warm weather than their 5w30. Looking at their viscosity specs, they are so similar, if anything the 0w30 would get worse mileage in the summer since it's slightly thicker at operating temp and at 40c. In the summer your oil is going to be pretty close to 40c already even on a "cold" start. Honestly though, I think both oils would be virtually equal in MPG. 0w30 vis at 40c is 54.8 5w30 vis at 40c is 53.7 0w30 vis at 100c is 10.1 5w30 vis at 100c is 9.7
I find it hard to believe also, Patman, for the reasons you suggest, but I tried the oil and got undeniably better gas mileage with it vs M1 5w-30. Others who have tried it report the same gains vs M1 5w-30. So there it is. I asked Mobil about this and this is their reply:
quote:
Q. You've said that Mobil 1 0W-30 delivers the best fuel economy of the Mobil 1 line, but its viscosity is nearly the same as Mobil 1 5W-30. How can it deliver better gas mileage than Mobil 1 5W-30? -- Jay Stewart, Arroyo Grande, CA A. The viscosity of Mobil 1 0W-30 is significantly different (that is, significantly less) than the viscosity of Mobil 1 5W-30 at the cold cranking (-35º C) and pumping (-40º C) temperature limits for an SAE 0W viscosity grade. In other words, the viscosities become significantly different at cold temperatures. Lower viscosity at start-up, particularly in cold temperatures, provides – in general – better fuel economy. The reason Mobil 1 0W-30 delivers the best fuel economy of the Mobil 1 line is because it has been tested against and met a stringent European fuel efficiency standard – M111 – which requires triplicate test passing.
 
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Location
Colorado Springs
quote:
The reason Mobil 1 0W-30 delivers the best fuel economy of the Mobil 1 line is because it has been tested against and met a stringent European fuel efficiency standard – M111 – which requires triplicate test passing.
This reply is nonsense. Testing only would prove not the reason. I am with Pat on this. But I guess is you always drove your card in very cold temps and shut the engine off before you got to 100C, I agree Mobil1 0W-30 would give you better gas milage. As they say, YMMV. BYW, I use Mobil1 0W-30 for the low temp reasons/cold start reasons. Increase gas mileage has not been really noticable, but then I drive my cars usually more then 5 miles at a time. As we all know the advantage to this for any oil or car.
 
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