Manual calls for 5-20w is 10-40w ok to use?

[Geoff]

I would check the recommended oil for the same engine in another country and see if its still 5w-20. Acura is sold as Honda in most places other than the US.

Honda may have designed the engine for a certain weight. The oil pump, for one thing, might not be up to heavy oils.

 

[TallPaul]

quote:

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Originally posted by tenderloin:
Most major oil companies also jumped on the band wagon at mucho costs to them. Are they also part of the 5w-20 CAFE conspiracy?

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Not disputing the performance of 5w20, but the major oil companies would jump on the 5w20 bandwagon at great cost because in the long run there is a lot of money to be lost when half the cars on the road spec 5w20 if they are not supplying it. In spite of the good uoa's I think I'd run a high quality synthetic 10w30 in a vehicle specing 5w20--but that's just old-school me. But the only way to know for sure what I would do is to buy me a brand new F150 and see what I do.

 

[jthorner]

Oh for **** sake this is getting to be an old debate.

There is ZERO evidence of 5W-20 oil use causing problems in any of the vehicles for which it is specified, CAFE, EPA or not. In fact, the VAST majority of oil analysis results posted using top grade 5W-20 oils in all manner of climates and vehicles has shown it to do an excellent job of minimizing engine wear.

Of course there will always be people who Want More Data, or Simply Can Not Believe It. Such people Know What They Know, and no amount of contrary information is going to change their minds.

For those of us who try to make our decisions based on DATA, the answers are in. Spend some time reading the 0W-20 and 5W-20 oil analysis results here on BITOG. Show me ONE case where these oils in the vehicles for which they are specified did anything other than an excellent job.

What is important to you, data and information ... or old biases and preconceived notions?

I read the entire EPA document referenced and it goes to great lengths to try to make it such that when a vehicle mfg. uses 5W-20 for fuel economy certification that they also take extraordinary steps to try and make sure car owners will continue having the vehicle filled with that grade of oil. So what? That in no way condems the performance of the oils.

It really frosts me when people point to that document as if it is some kind of smoking gun proving that 5W-20 oils are some kind of conspiracy.

Yes, 5W-20 use has been primarily motivated by it's potential to improve fuel economy at very low cost to the vehicle mfg. and the customers. Why exactly is this a bad thing? The mass market switch over to radial tires was in part motivated by the improved fuel economy they deliver as compared to bias ply tires. Are you going to put Good Old Fashioned Bias 4 Ply Tires on your car because they were good 'nuf fer Granddad?????

The fact that the auto makers and oil makers have been able to develop a motor oil specification which both slightly improves fuel economy and results in very low engine wear is a technological accomplishment. This is praise worth, not conspiracy theory worthy.

John

P.S.

quote:

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Unlike Ford, Honda decided NOT to certify their cars based (in part) on 5w20, even though they recommend* 5w20 in most of their cars now.

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You might want to check your facts there partner. My 2003 Accord owners manual specifies 5W-20 only. The oil filler cap has 5W-20 molded into it. At least on my vehicle, Honda has conformed to the requirement of the EPA memo.

Besides CAFE there are also advertising and bragging rights at stake here. I just pulled this data from Edmunds:

2004 Base Honda Accord EPA Fuel Economy:
26 mpg city cycle, 34 mpg highway

2004 Base Toyota Camry EPA Fuel Economy:
24 mpg city, 33 mpg highway

Both vehicles use 2.4 liter 4 cylinder engines. Both are equipped with 5 speed manual gearboxes (for this data set). The Accord is 3053 lbs., Camry 3086 lbs.

Camry is the best selling car in the US. Accord is #2. Don't you think Honda is looking for every point to put on the "we are better than Toyota" sales pitch? How do you think Honda beat Toyota by 2 mpg in the city fuel economy test? I'm willing to be that Honda's specification of 5W-20 oil as compared to Toyota's 5W-30 is one piece of that puzzle.

[ June 15, 2004, 02:14 AM: Message edited by: jthorner ]

 

[seotaji]

Mobil 1 5W-30 or 10W-30.

I use the 10w30 and get 2MPG better than EPA estimates.

 

[haley10]

I would not ever use a 10W-40 in that car.

If you drive hard just pick a good synthetic in the recommended viscosity. Thicker isn't better with this one.

 

[John in the ATL]

quote:

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Originally posted by goofy8:
Acura 2003 3.2 TL type S, calls for 5w-20 oil. I don't think this provides enough protection when driven hard. I live in a HOT area of the world Florida.

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I am running Castrol GTX 10w-30 currently in my wife's 2004 3.5L Odyssey based on the ambient temperature during the summer. It sounds better and the car drives better than with the factory fill. I will be do a basic UOA later to check the wear metals. That being said, I will give the Motorcraft 5w-20 a try for the mild winter.

Do not go any higher than 10w-30. For dino oils, Pennzoil PureBase, Havoline, or Castrol GTX.

As for synthetics, Mobil 1 10w-30 is a good choice for Florida or the Amsoil ASL 5w-30 if you do not mind ordering the stuff.

Stay away from 10w-40; most quality 10w-30 are more shear stable anyway.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by jthorner:
You might want to check your facts there partner. My 2003 Accord owners manual specifies 5W-20 only. The oil filler cap has 5W-20 molded into it. At least on my vehicle, Honda has conformed to the requirement of the EPA memo.

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Initially, when Honda recommended 5w20 and started shipping 5w20 in their engines, they did not do it for CAFE reasons. They even issued public statements to that effect. Maybe they are now.

 

[427Z06]

goofy8, FWIW, I agree with you. Although the 5w20s are great oils and do well in many vehicles in various climates, the part that most people overlook is the fact that 99% of those UOAs we see are done on Ford modular design type engines or 4 cyl Hondas. I personally believe that Honda V6s that are driven hard in the hot climates will do better with a little higher viscosity. But as John Browning pointed out, don't go overboard. I wouldn't go any thicker than GC 0w30.

Start with something like Mobil 1 10w30 and do a UOA. If you have less than 12K miles on that Honda, take the UOA with a grain of salt at first, as these engines take a while to break in.

If you drive really hard, maybe M1 R 0w30 might be worth a shot, but it is expensive.

And I would forget using a Dino 10w40, too much VI improvers that'll shear out quickly and leave the remnants to dirty your engine. I'd use M1 0w20 way before I'd use Dino 10w40.

A good combination just might be M1 0w20 in the winter and M1 10w30/M1 R 0w30 for the summer.

 

[tenderloin]

I am glad we have engineers on this board that put Hondas engineers to shame.....

 

[haley10]

quote:

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Originally posted by tenderloin:
I am glad we have engineers on this board that put Hondas engineers to shame.....

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Well, at least no one has suggested the 15W-40 HDEO's yet.

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by tenderloin:
I am glad we have engineers on this board that put Hondas engineers to shame.....

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Since I design an important component that goes into Honda's, I'll consider myself a Honda engineer.

 

[Lumberg]

Everyone here probably knew, knows, or knows of someone who insisted on using 10w40 in their later model car(s) even if they specified a Xw30 oil. Most people on here would probably pity that poor misguided fool who insisted on using 10w40.

The people who insist on using an Xw30 oil in a car that specifies an Xw20 oil are simply those who fail to learn from the past and are doomed to repeat its mistakes.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by Lumberg:
Everyone here probably knew, knows, or knows of someone who insisted on using 10w40 in their later model car(s) even if they specified a Xw30 oil. Most people on here would probably pity that poor misguided fool who insisted on using 10w40.

The people who insist on using an Xw30 oil in a car that specifies an Xw20 oil are simply those who fail to learn from the past and are doomed to repeat its mistakes.

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I think that's a bit harsh. Using a 10w30 or even a 10w40 in an engine spec'd for 5w20 is not going to harm the engine. If using 10w40 makes someone sleep better at night, more power to 'em. It may not be the best choice in oil, but it's certainly not the worst, and no one should be called a fool for making it. JMHO.

 

[sprintman]

A bit harsh indeed. I used 25W70 for several years in a Mazda that in the US spec 5W30. 220,000kms and better than when I bought it with 120,00kms on it.

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by Lumberg:
Everyone here probably knew, knows, or knows of someone who insisted on using 10w40 in their later model car(s) even if they specified a Xw30 oil. Most people on here would probably pity that poor misguided fool who insisted on using 10w40.

The people who insist on using an Xw30 oil in a car that specifies an Xw20 oil are simply those who fail to learn from the past and are doomed to repeat its mistakes.

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I guess all the '97-'98 Hondas/Acuras with the IDENTICAL engines should start blowing up all over the USA, since those are suppose to use SJ 5w30/10w30 dino oils.

And heck, those Hondas/Acuras in Europe and Australia must not make it past the first year running that thick oil as they do. It must be Honda's "affirmative action" engineers writing the oil specs for the manuals in those countries.

 

[goofy8]

Quote

The people who insist on using an Xw30 oil in a car that specifies an Xw20 oil are simply those who fail to learn from the past and are doomed to repeat its mistakes.


I learning from me past (I do this daily), my other car 92 honda Accord with 185k miles on it ran's on 10-40w from the day it was new. Yes I can keep cars for a long time. Would I have gotten 185k strong miles runs really good still strong burns no oil, shifts at 6 grand when your standing on it. Would this car run as well on what the "Owners Manual" says 5-30w I don't think so.


Would I miss something running 10-40w in a new V6 running close to 7 grand maybe, thats my big Question. Am I killing a V6 running 5-20w pushing it to 7 grand?

Is 10-40w a bit over kill maybe? Is something X-30w better.

Whould I ever put anything in a 1967 Ponitiac 428HO motor sitting in my garage like 5-20w or X-30w you're crazy, and this is what make me think about 5-20w in my new car.


I've built engines, I race engines, I ask 110% from engines.

 

[John in the ATL]

10w-30 has gotten alot better since your 1992 Honda rolled off the assembly line.

10w-30 is as heavy as you would want to go with the Honda/Acura.

Now your big block pushrod V8 is a totally differently animal. In that case, 15w-40 or 20w-50 would work. A Heavy Duty 15w-40 will be much more shear stable, have a better additive package and be a better choice in that application than the 10w-40 PCMO (Passenger Car Motor Oil).

 

[goofy8]

Well with all this talk that 10-30w is much better, 10-40w is not a good choice. I'm considering the 0W30 from Amsoil.

Thanks all.

 

[427Z06]

Your Welcome.

 

[Lumberg]

quote:

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Originally posted by sprintman:
A bit harsh indeed. I used 25W70 for several years in a Mazda that in the US spec 5W30. 220,000kms and better than when I bought it with 120,00kms on it.

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There's such a thing as a 25w70 oil? Who makes it?