Mann W 930/21 (Cut Open)

Messages
993
Location
Wisconsin USA
This Mann W 930/21 is off of a 2002 Passat 4Motion with the 2.7L V6. The car has 149k miles. The filter saw just under 5000 miles (which is VW's recommended OCI) over 5 months. Oil used was Mobil 1 5w-30 and an unknown amount of an unknown make up oil added over that interval. The previous owner had this vehicle serviced on schedule (5k intervals), but often used the quickie lubes with dino bulk oil. Consequently, he claims oil consumption of 1 quart per 1k miles, although my limited experience has been much better. There seems to be varnish and light sludge visible under the oil fill cap. VW's OEM oil specification is 502.00. This is one well made filter. The can totally trashed my Harbor Freight exhaust pipe cutter, so I had to cut it with a hacksaw. The pleats are straight, closely spaced, and uniform, as I've seen in all non-Purolator made Mann filters. The ADBV is white silicone, soft and pliable. I don't have any performance information on efficiency or beta ratios. The bypass valve on this filter is set relatively high at 30 to 35 PSI. I replaced this with a Mahle OC 485, and refilled the engine with M1 0w-40. I'll post a UOA sometime next week.
 
Messages
2,933
Location
Georgia/Retired
German Mann-Hummel, Mahle-Knecht, and Hengst are as good as it gets when it comes to oil filters. I can't believe that Mann has partnered with that joke Purolator and put their name on the garbage they're selling.
 
Messages
3,048
Originally Posted By: FowVay
German Mann-Hummel, Mahle-Knecht, and Hengst are as good as it gets when it comes to oil filters. I can't believe that Mann has partnered with that joke Purolator and put their name on the garbage they're selling.
Really bro? Them some strong words. What do YOU have to back em up? Or just what you have read as an internet warrior. For sure there is an issue P needs to deal with. I can see some hesitation but there have been some MANN filters here with tears as well. I use M1 0-40 in my 08 BMW with a Mahale but I've had a bunch of apparently pre-2013 P1's that have looked primo on the armada in my sig after 7.5k. Time and time again. Can't blame you for looking to another filter, I will as as well and have done so int he 95 Camry. Just seems a little over the top is all. MHO
 

R80RS

Thread starter
Messages
993
Location
Wisconsin USA
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
there have been some MANN filters here with tears as well.
AFAIK all the Mann filters that have turned up with tears are re-badged Purolators, particularly re-badged Puro Classics. Mann manufacturers filters of their own design, like this one, that have nothing in common with Purolator and do not have the tearing problem.
 
Messages
3,048
Originally Posted By: R80RS
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
there have been some MANN filters here with tears as well.
AFAIK all the Mann filters that have turned up with tears are re-badged Purolators, particularly re-badged Puro Classics. Mann manufacturers filters of their own design, like this one, that have nothing in common with Purolator and do not have the tearing problem.
Mann with a "Mann" label is still a Mann filter, is it not? For me, I stopped using K&N when they became "outsourced" to Korea and Mexico. Loosing faith is loosing faith, is it not? That is what is sold to us. The promise of a certain level of quality, no matter where the filter is manufactured or what brand is silently behind it. My feelings anyway.
 

R80RS

Thread starter
Messages
993
Location
Wisconsin USA
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
Originally Posted By: R80RS
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
there have been some MANN filters here with tears as well.
AFAIK all the Mann filters that have turned up with tears are re-badged Purolators, particularly re-badged Puro Classics. Mann manufacturers filters of their own design, like this one, that have nothing in common with Purolator and do not have the tearing problem.
Mann with a "Mann" label is still a Mann filter, is it not? For me, I stopped using K&N when they became "outsourced" to Korea and Mexico. Loosing faith is loosing faith, is it not? That is what is sold to us. The promise of a certain level of quality, no matter where the filter is manufactured or what brand is silently behind it. My feelings anyway.
Fair enough. I agree it is a black eye for Mann that they allow filters with their name on the can to be manufactured by their Purolator subsidiary, only to turn up with tears. One of the reasons I installed a Mahle instead of another Mann was because I didn't want to run the risk that this Mann part number is now a Purolator. (I get my filters on line so I can't see them at the time of purchase.) So Mann lost my sale because I didn't want to take a chance on getting a re-badged Purolator. However, if I was confident that the Mann filter I wanted was not a Puro, I'd use it with confidence in a heartbeat.
 
Messages
2,933
Location
Georgia/Retired
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
Really bro? Them some strong words. What do YOU have to back em up? Or just what you have read as an internet warrior.
Read around, BRO! I have numerous posts about the garbage Purolators, numerous communications with both Purolator AND Mann-Hummel regarding the issues they have, and I have the evidence in my facility that can't be debated. So, bro, get off of your high horse and face the facts. I have been rather polite regarding this travesty that is Purolator filters. I don't need some yahoo at an internet terminal starting a debate with me because they don't like reality. Use the garbage if you wish but don't ever say you didn't know what you were buying.
 
Messages
3,048
Originally Posted By: FowVay
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
Really bro? Them some strong words. What do YOU have to back em up? Or just what you have read as an internet warrior.
Read around, BRO! I have numerous posts about the garbage Purolators, numerous communications with both Purolator AND Mann-Hummel regarding the issues they have, and I have the evidence in my facility that can't be debated. So, bro, get off of your high horse and face the facts. I have been rather polite regarding this travesty that is Purolator filters. I don't need some yahoo at an internet terminal starting a debate with me because they don't like reality. Use the garbage if you wish but don't ever say you didn't know what you were buying.
Ummmm I have cut filters 2. Mine look stellar but I'm not going out there saying there isn't an issue. From what I've seen there is a period of manufacture where things went bad. I don't support P but I also arent going to trash all they make as mine are a -ok. I still have a bunch left. I cut em open with trepidation. But so far jackpot. Mine are mostly 2012 IIR build dates. I guess nobody told me YOUR facility held the only true evidence. I stand corrected buddy! And I could care less if your polite or not. I'm a big boy, I can handle a little anger. Not that it changes anything. My GOOD ones may cancel a few BAD ones but none of us could ever say what true fail rate is with certainty. And I agree there is enough I wouldn't go buy a new one! Plenty of solid competition out there not to take the chance. BUT to demean a whole company is a little off base.
 
Messages
3,048
Originally Posted By: R80RS
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
Originally Posted By: R80RS
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
there have been some MANN filters here with tears as well.
AFAIK all the Mann filters that have turned up with tears are re-badged Purolators, particularly re-badged Puro Classics. Mann manufacturers filters of their own design, like this one, that have nothing in common with Purolator and do not have the tearing problem.
Mann with a "Mann" label is still a Mann filter, is it not? For me, I stopped using K&N when they became "outsourced" to Korea and Mexico. Loosing faith is loosing faith, is it not? That is what is sold to us. The promise of a certain level of quality, no matter where the filter is manufactured or what brand is silently behind it. My feelings anyway.
Fair enough. I agree it is a black eye for Mann that they allow filters with their name on the can to be manufactured by their Purolator subsidiary, only to turn up with tears. One of the reasons I installed a Mahle instead of another Mann was because I didn't want to run the risk that this Mann part number is now a Purolator. (I get my filters on line so I can't see them at the time of purchase.) So Mann lost my sale because I didn't want to take a chance on getting a re-badged Purolator. However, if I was confident that the Mann filter I wanted was not a Puro, I'd use it with confidence in a heartbeat.
I know the feeling! I have a change coming up with the 08 BMW. What to choose! It will be a Mann most likely. Just wish it left me with a better feeling!
 
Messages
4,937
Location
Lima, Ohio, USA
guys, it's easy to tell a puro-Mann, from a real Mann filter if you can handle the filter before purchase. if it says Made in the USA, or some variant of that, it's a purolator. if it's made in Germany, it's good to go. (not sure if they have manufacturing anywhere else..)
 
Messages
2,035
Location
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: FowVay
German Mann-Hummel, Mahle-Knecht, and Hengst are as good as it gets when it comes to oil filters. I can't believe that Mann has partnered with that joke Purolator and put their name on the garbage they're selling.
+1
 
Messages
1,848
Location
FEMA Region 4
Originally Posted By: FowVay
Originally Posted By: BISCUT
Really bro? Them some strong words. What do YOU have to back em up? Or just what you have read as an internet warrior.
Read around, BRO! I have numerous posts about the garbage Purolators, numerous communications with both Purolator AND Mann-Hummel regarding the issues they have, and I have the evidence in my facility that can't be debated. So, bro, get off of your high horse and face the facts. I have been rather polite regarding this travesty that is Purolator filters. I don't need some yahoo at an internet terminal starting a debate with me because they don't like reality. Use the garbage if you wish but don't ever say you didn't know what you were buying.
Those really are some strong words. I have yet to ever have had any Purolator model fail on me. I understand that you had a bad experience, but there is no need for hostilities, just objective debate smirk It really is not fair to say a whole company is garbage because of a few failures. I dont particularly care for Fram (which I have made very clear in the past) but their top tier filters are outstanding. As such Im not going to denounce the whole company as garbage because they make many models of what I believe to be a "junky bargain line"
 
Last edited:

R80RS

Thread starter
Messages
993
Location
Wisconsin USA
Originally Posted By: earlyre
guys, it's easy to tell a puro-Mann, from a real Mann filter if you can handle the filter before purchase. if it says Made in the USA, or some variant of that, it's a purolator. if it's made in Germany, it's good to go. (not sure if they have manufacturing anywhere else..)
Mann manufactures globally. I've used Mann filters made in Germany, Mexico, Spain and Bosnia-Herzegovina. I've also seen, but not used, Brazilian made Manns. These were all Mann design filters, not Puros.
 
Messages
4,937
Location
Lima, Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: R80RS
Originally Posted By: earlyre
guys, it's easy to tell a puro-Mann, from a real Mann filter if you can handle the filter before purchase. if it says Made in the USA, or some variant of that, it's a purolator. if it's made in Germany, it's good to go. (not sure if they have manufacturing anywhere else..)
Mann manufactures globally. I've used Mann filters made in Germany, Mexico, Spain and Bosnia-Herzegovina. I've also seen, but not used, Brazilian made Manns. These were all Mann design filters, not Puros.
that makes it even easier. if made in the USA, It's a Purolator, made anywhere else, it's a real MANN filter.
 
Messages
2,107
Location
Appleton, WI
I tried a couple of times to cut open my Fram labeled W930/21s with a hacksaw and failed miserably. That is one tough can on those filters. Thanks for posting so I can finally see the innards of these great filters. I'm just sad that Fram is making the PH8994 themselves now instead of contracting with Mann in Germany. I loved being able to get them at Fleet Farm for $4.37 each.
 
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