Mandatory epi-pen

[Toy4x4]

I go in for allergy shots once a week for fairly minor allergies (comparatively), but they really help out when "the season" hits. Very low tick on a couple of food items that I never have to worry about as they are no threat (ie: milk...just makes my nose a bit more goobery). I am FAR, FAR from those who might die from a bit of peanut or shellfish. I went in Monday and was told there have been new policies put in place. *In order to get shots, I have to bring in an epi-pen every time or they won't be administered. I'm not a scary person, but the look on the admin's face told me she was waiting for an outburst, so she must have already taken a verbal beating from previous patients. I went in today with the mandatory pen and after my shots asked if there could be a waiver considering my personal low threat level and have never needed it before. Nope. Many people had already asked and had yelled at them. Poor ladies! Not their fault! I was even told that nine patients had already left this practice...in a week! Its crossed my mind, as well. The pen is staying in the truck, no matter what, so I don't forget it. Don't care if that is not proper storage since its never getting used.

I'm lucky since my co-pay was only $10. I looked up the price and retail for generic pens anywhere from $150-300. The real stuff can be $500!! For me, its the principle of it. I can afford the $20 a year (they go out of date), but its still throwing $20 out the window for nothing. Someone with poor or no insurance would have to cough up the money or go through changing doctors. What I don't pay just adds to the cost of the insurance company, so rates have to go up.

Any allergy sufferers have this mandatory pen deal?

 

[y_p_w]

There are cheaper alternatives now. Could someone just get a prescription for a bottle of Adrenalin and a few syringes and call it a day? I figure if there's a medical professional able to administer allergy shots, then drawing and administering 0.3 ml of Adrenalin should be easy.

Why don't they just have one/several on hand? Isn't that what paramedics have?

 

[gathermewool]

Something happened to make them require a pen. It either cost them way more than their projected losses due to a new requirement or they didn't do the math correctly. For you, the math works in favor of sticking with them and ponying up chump change for a pen every six months.

My wife does immunotherapy via the drop she puts under her tongue every day (vice having to get a shot every week). I wonder if they've considered something similar to what you're making you do.

//

Thanks for the reminder. I've been meaning to go to see someone about my mild-to-moderate seasonal allergies and moderate allergies to certain things like cat dander, dust mites, and mold.

 

[nthach]

That's an invitation for a lawsuit to happen. It doesn't cost them too much to have a few epinephrine vials on hand. EMS does keep them on hand in their cardiac crash kits.

 

[mk378]

The medicine in an Epi-pen costs about $2.00 in a vial if you have your own syringe and needle and a person who knows how to use it.

Any actual allergy clinic should have all of those things on hand in case a patient has a reaction.

 

[StevieC]

This should really irritate you then: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...prices-allergy-official/article31570003/

Quote
In the United States, the EpiPen is sold by pharmaceutical company Mylan, which incrementally hiked its price more than 500 per cent over the past nine years, pushing its list price for a two-syringe pack from $94 (U.S.) to more than $600.

Canadians pay around $120 (Canadian - 30% for USD) for a single auto-injector, with the price varying somewhat, depending on an individual pharmacy's dispensing fee, Ms. Harada said Thursday.


We get better pricing because we buy in bulk for the whole country. This is why privatized health care for profit is a problem. Most of our Dental/Drug plans through our employers cover the cost of this fully so there is no cost and just a minor dispensing fee depending on the pharmacy of $6-12 CDN (so 30% less on all these prices to convert to USD)

And yes our system isn't perfect, no system is. But being poor here doesn't mean you have to do without. And if you are critical there is no waiting period for anything despite what some naysayers on Fox say.

 

[Trav]

I have to have one for this new medication and the xolair shots before that. If you get xolair you must have one at all times. I had a reaction to it after almost a year right out of the blue and needed the injection.
My allergies are life threatening, a birch tree can be a real serious problem if I don't get a few shots on the spot, the allergies trigger sever asthma attacks and drives the pulse up out of this world to the point it can damage the heart.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by StevieC
We get better pricing because we buy in bulk for the whole country. This is why privatized health care for profit is a problem. Most of our Dental/Drug plans through our employers cover the cost of this fully so there is no cost and just a minor dispensing fee depending on the pharmacy of $6-12 CDN (so 30% less on all these prices to convert to USD)

And yes our system isn't perfect, no system is. But being poor here doesn't mean you have to do without. And if you are critical there is no waiting period for anything despite what some naysayers on Fox say.

Depends on what end. Most private hospitals in the United States are non-profits. Even big companies like Kaiser Permanente are legally non-profits. That doesn't mean that a lot of people don't get paid well in an industry with high pay. However, their goal isn't shareholder return. I remember when the big Blue Cross Blue Shield health insurance affiliates used to be solely non-profit. Now many have gone for-profit, although many have stayed non-profit.

There are the occasional for-profit hospitals in the US. I remember Humana ran a huge number of hospitals along with their HMO, but eventually they spun off their hospitals (to a for-profit company) to become an HMO.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by mk378
The medicine in an Epi-pen costs about $2.00 in a vial if you have your own syringe and needle and a person who knows how to use it.

Any actual allergy clinic should have all of those things on hand in case a patient has a reaction.

That's what I was getting at. However, the EpiPen is much easier to use under stress, especially if seconds count.

What one is paying for with Epi-Pen is the delivery system. I believe it's off-patent, but nobody else makes it. Even a generic would require testing that the delivery system is effective.

 

[ecotourist]

The most severe allergic reaction I ever encountered was in a case like you describe. So I can see why your physician (I assume you're talking about a physician) insists on having adrenaline on hand.

In my experience, most clinics that provide allergy shots or immunizations have a few vials of adrenaline on hand along with the usual syringes and needles. Adrenaline in vials is very cheap.

 

[c502cid]

Originally Posted by StevieC
This should really irritate you then: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...prices-allergy-official/article31570003/

Quote
In the United States, the EpiPen is sold by pharmaceutical company Mylan, which incrementally hiked its price more than 500 per cent over the past nine years, pushing its list price for a two-syringe pack from $94 (U.S.) to more than $600.

Canadians pay around $120 (Canadian - 30% for USD) for a single auto-injector, with the price varying somewhat, depending on an individual pharmacy's dispensing fee, Ms. Harada said Thursday.


We get better pricing because we buy in bulk for the whole country. This is why privatized health care for profit is a problem. Most of our Dental/Drug plans through our employers cover the cost of this fully so there is no cost and just a minor dispensing fee depending on the pharmacy of $6-12 CDN (so 30% less on all these prices to convert to USD)

And yes our system isn't perfect, no system is. But being poor here doesn't mean you have to do without. And if you are critical there is no waiting period for anything despite what some naysayers on Fox say.

I have news for you.... I have two kids with severe peanut allergies since birth, now both 23 years old. I have NEVER paid for an epipen, no matter what what the CBC naysayers about the state of the US medical insurance industries you listen to say. The company that makes epipens has had free coupons for them since we started. Now it probably has changed since the generic version finally came out, and I don't know the politics behind the competitive Auvi-Q being forced out of business, but the $600 figure you quote is not a reality. Our system is not perfect either, but don't believe everything the CBC regurgitates either. LOL!

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by c502cid
Originally Posted by StevieC
This should really irritate you then: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...prices-allergy-official/article31570003/

Quote
In the United States, the EpiPen is sold by pharmaceutical company Mylan, which incrementally hiked its price more than 500 per cent over the past nine years, pushing its list price for a two-syringe pack from $94 (U.S.) to more than $600.

Canadians pay around $120 (Canadian - 30% for USD) for a single auto-injector, with the price varying somewhat, depending on an individual pharmacy's dispensing fee, Ms. Harada said Thursday.


We get better pricing because we buy in bulk for the whole country. This is why privatized health care for profit is a problem. Most of our Dental/Drug plans through our employers cover the cost of this fully so there is no cost and just a minor dispensing fee depending on the pharmacy of $6-12 CDN (so 30% less on all these prices to convert to USD)

And yes our system isn't perfect, no system is. But being poor here doesn't mean you have to do without. And if you are critical there is no waiting period for anything despite what some naysayers on Fox say.

I have news for you.... I have two kids with severe peanut allergies since birth, now both 23 years old. I have NEVER paid for an epipen, no matter what what the CBC naysayers about the state of the US medical insurance industries you listen to say. The company that makes epipens has had free coupons for them since we started. Now it probably has changed since the generic version finally came out, and I don't know the politics behind the competitive Auvi-Q being forced out of business, but the $600 figure you quote is not a reality. Our system is not perfect either, but don't believe everything the CBC regurgitates either. LOL!

Auvi-Q is back on the market. The list price is crazy, although nobody ever pays it. I think there's also a few others.

There were more or less traditional syringes that were designed to release after a twist of the plunger. I mean - twist it first to unlock, then plunge. But in a pressure situation it might be hard to do.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted by Toy4x4
I go in for allergy shots once a week for fairly minor allergies (comparatively), but they really help out when "the season" hits. Very low tick on a couple of food items that I never have to worry about as they are no threat (ie: milk...just makes my nose a bit more goobery). I am FAR, FAR from those who might die from a bit of peanut or shellfish. I went in Monday and was told there have been new policies put in place. *In order to get shots, I have to bring in an epi-pen every time or they won't be administered. I'm not a scary person, but the look on the admin's face told me she was waiting for an outburst, so she must have already taken a verbal beating from previous patients. I went in today with the mandatory pen and after my shots asked if there could be a waiver considering my personal low threat level and have never needed it before. Nope. Many people had already asked and had yelled at them. Poor ladies! Not their fault! I was even told that nine patients had already left this practice...in a week! Its crossed my mind, as well. The pen is staying in the truck, no matter what, so I don't forget it. Don't care if that is not proper storage since its never getting used.

I'm lucky since my co-pay was only $10. I looked up the price and retail for generic pens anywhere from $150-300. The real stuff can be $500!! For me, its the principle of it. I can afford the $20 a year (they go out of date), but its still throwing $20 out the window for nothing. Someone with poor or no insurance would have to cough up the money or go through changing doctors. What I don't pay just adds to the cost of the insurance company, so rates have to go up.
Any allergy sufferers have this mandatory pen deal?


Way back when, I got desensitization shots for grass and tree pollen. These may have worked in that I can recall really miserable days during these seasons that I now barely notice.
Adrenaline?
Naw, I had a prescription for prednisone, to be taken if a bad reaction occurred. I can tell you that the one time I had to take it that it worked just great.
The Epi-Pen is for acute reactions to stings. I do experience anaphylactic shock from yellowjacket stings and have a pair of pens for that event.
For ordinary allergy shots, I think the pen brings more risk than needed.

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted by c502cid
I have news for you.... I have two kids with severe peanut allergies since birth, now both 23 years old. I have NEVER paid for an epipen, no matter what what the CBC naysayers about the state of the US medical insurance industries you listen to say. The company that makes epipens has had free coupons for them since we started. Now it probably has changed since the generic version finally came out, and I don't know the politics behind the competitive Auvi-Q being forced out of business, but the $600 figure you quote is not a reality. Our system is not perfect either, but don't believe everything the CBC regurgitates either. LOL!
An American who knows the truth about the CBC? I tip my hat to you, sir.
We're subsidizing the private sector media now, too. Just in time for the 2019 federal elections.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by fdcg27
Way back when, I got desensitization shots for grass and tree pollen. These may have worked in that I can recall really miserable days during these seasons that I now barely notice.
Adrenaline?
Naw, I had a prescription for prednisone, to be taken if a bad reaction occurred. I can tell you that the one time I had to take it that it worked just great.
The Epi-Pen is for acute reactions to stings. I do experience anaphylactic shock from yellowjacket stings and have a pair of pens for that event.
For ordinary allergy shots, I think the pen brings more risk than needed.


Anaphylaxis is listed as a possible risk.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/allergy-shots/about/pac-20392876

 

[bbhero]

Originally Posted by StevieC
This should really irritate you then: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/new...prices-allergy-official/article31570003/

Quote
In the United States, the EpiPen is sold by pharmaceutical company Mylan, which incrementally hiked its price more than 500 per cent over the past nine years, pushing its list price for a two-syringe pack from $94 (U.S.) to more than $600.

Canadians pay around $120 (Canadian - 30% for USD) for a single auto-injector, with the price varying somewhat, depending on an individual pharmacy's dispensing fee, Ms. Harada said Thursday.


We get better pricing because we buy in bulk for the whole country. This is why privatized health care for profit is a problem. Most of our Dental/Drug plans through our employers cover the cost of this fully so there is no cost and just a minor dispensing fee depending on the pharmacy of $6-12 CDN (so 30% less on all these prices to convert to USD)

And yes our system isn't perfect, no system is. But being poor here doesn't mean you have to do without. And if you are critical there is no waiting period for anything despite what some naysayers on Fox say.

Our system is not perfect... I agree 100%. No system is obviously. I think a private/ public system would likely be decent middle of the road way to go.

Sorry.... But being poor does matter up there to... Why?? Because rich people from your area come south.... And pay straight Cash for life saving procedures...
No wait.... Unlike your poor people. They wait...

There's no way there's not a "waiting" list for regular people.... There are not enough speciality physicians, not enough beds, not enough PT, OT, nursing staff, not enough testing places or testing time, or testing techs X Ray,MRI or CT....

By the way.... This is a phenomenon that is from all parts of the world... When my step father had open heart surgery at the Cleveland Clinic.... There were patients from all over the world there... Why??? They paid straight Cash for their needed procedure. No wait.... The "wealthy" from everywhere.... Have a different standard. And no such thing as "equal" care happens anywhere... It doesn't. People with enough means can go outside of the "rules" to get what they need and not be like the rest of the sheepeople.

And no. Nothing is free... Testing, physicians of all specialities, physical therapy, occupational therapy, x Ray techs, MRI tech, CT scan techs, nursing care are all not volunteers... They get paid. Test cost money. Sometimes a lot of money.

No one does anything in this world to break even or lose money.... No one. Whether anyone likes it or not... Everything is driven by motive and profit.

And when there's no motivation, no innovation, no profit for human beings.... No one tries or gives a number 1 in the wind.... When's there's no $$$, no profit... There's no incentive to do anything any better or any different.

Zero and I mean 0 other sectors are played in this fashion.... Computers... Software..Why was Bill Gates worth 66,000,000,000 at one time??????

Profit.....

Why did the makers of Viagra hit the proverbial jackpot??? A product people wanted greatly... The people involved in that we're motivated by profit.

Other new drugs which may truly help people are being driven by this same exact phenomenon....

Profit....

We don't knock people like Bill Gates... I'm sorry but we shouldn't knock others for making money in a different way... In a different industry.

Why are medications so expensive??? Several big reasons. But #1 amongst them is the involvement of third big parties able to pay far far more money than a individual person could ... Private insurance and govt insurance are a part of why prices are so high... Another reason is how much money it actually takes for research and development in production of new medication. It is a quite a lot rather often. Plus companies have to recoup their money in a rather short window after they get the necessary approvals. And remember.... Part of that money they make in that window... Is financing the next drug they hope to introduce to the market. . Which again..... Is not cheap.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by bbhero
No one does anything in this world to break even or lose money.... No one. Whether anyone likes it or not... Everything is driven by motive and profit.

And when there's no motivation, no innovation, no profit for human beings.... No one tries or gives a number 1 in the wind.... When's there's no $$$, no profit... There's no incentive to do anything any better or any different.

There is indigent care, but that's sort of folded into the financial model. You also mentioned the Cleveland Clinic, which to my knowledge is a nonprofit.

But when we're talking about the EpiPen it's a really convoluted story. Mylan has done nothing with it other buy the distribution rights and market it in the US. They don't make it nor do they spend a cent on improving the technology. That was developed by another company and that technology eventually ended up sold to Pfizer. And Pfizer is doing its best to say "don't blame us". I believe part of the reason why EpiPen is cheaper in Canada is because Pfizer is the distributor. I heard that Pfizer gets maybe $40 (US) per pair. Here's an article on the issues from last year. It doesn't sound like Mylan makes any money from EpiPens sold outside the US, but they do control how they're allocated.

Quote
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...p-to-solve-epipen-shortage-idUSKBN1HO2ZN
EpiPens deliver a potentially lifesaving dose of the generic drug epinephrine via an automatic injector. They are made at a single Pfizer Inc facility near St. Louis, Missouri.

Last week, Pfizer notified consumers in Canada and Britain that the device is in short supply due to manufacturing problems. In response to a Reuters query, Pfizer said there was no shortage in the United States and that Mylan decides how EpiPens are allocated to different countries.

 

[NO2]

You can get the re-introduced Auvi-Q for free (no copay) with direct delivery. I'd also carry some Benadryl liquid (single dose for kids, but carry a few) as they are a lot easier to swallow than pills if your throat is constricted. Keep pills on hand too, especially on airplane flights where medical services may be hours away. You can download the Auvi-Q form at the web site.

https://www.auvi-q.com/

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted by NO2
You can get the re-introduced Auvi-Q for free (no copay) with direct delivery. I'd also carry some Benadryl liquid (single dose for kids, but carry a few) as they are a lot easier to swallow than pills if your throat is constricted. Keep pills on hand too, especially on airplane flights where medical services may be hours away. You can download the Auvi-Q form at the web site.

https://www.auvi-q.com/

I've heard of people taking larger than normal doses of Benadryl when an injection wasn't possible. Apparently it won't kill someone, but it's going to make them very drowsy. Of course anyone who does that needs to consult with a doctor first.

 

[Skippy722]

Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by NO2
You can get the re-introduced Auvi-Q for free (no copay) with direct delivery. I'd also carry some Benadryl liquid (single dose for kids, but carry a few) as they are a lot easier to swallow than pills if your throat is constricted. Keep pills on hand too, especially on airplane flights where medical services may be hours away. You can download the Auvi-Q form at the web site.

https://www.auvi-q.com/

I've heard of people taking larger than normal doses of Benadryl when an injection wasn't possible. Apparently it won't kill someone, but it's going to make them very drowsy. Of course anyone who does that needs to consult with a doctor first.


THIS IS NOT MEDICAL ADVICE!!!!!!!
Yep... I remember my sister having a really bad reaction to an acne medication which made her break out in a truly wicked case of hives. Family friend/nurse told her to take 6 (150mg) to stop it from getting worse or transitioning into full blown anaphylaxis and get to the er. They hooked her up to an IV and gave her some more once she got there.

She's apparently immune to the drowsy side affect of Benadryl... I so much as touch the pill I have 20 minutes max to find a place to lay down and go to sleep