Maintaining Warranty by DIY oil changes.

Messages
1,590
Location
Austin, TX
My wife drives a new 2006 Highlander and the OCI is 5K miles and surprisingly when I looked at the maintainence log book, all that it says till 60K miles in only oil changes and tire rotation (with that occasional check fluids at 30K miles). Now, if I were to do the oil changes on the new vehicle, how would I be able to keep up my power train warranty.
 
Messages
47,800
Location
Everson WA - Pacific NW USA
Yes. No problem. Just keep a record book and receipts (filter, too). Also I use all the same DLC oil for the change and retain an unopened bottle until the next change (not necessary, but safe).
 
Messages
1,451
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
Quote:
Also I use all the same DLC oil for the change and retain an unopened bottle until the next change (not necessary, but safe).
What do you mean by this? What does DLC stand for?
 
Messages
9,427
Location
Pensacola & Vero Beach FL
That's no problem at all. As Pabs said, receipts plus some logging of what you did will cover you. Moreover, remember, you simply CAN'T "void" a wty in the US, for lack of receipts, documents, and so forth. Under applicable US law, the mfr has the burden to prove that something you did (or failed to do) was the cause of the claimed failure. On one hand, it's certainly better to do your changes on time, and have some evidence of that, but on the other hand, a lack of reciepts does not prove anything about your engine. And even if the mfr did successfully prove that you caused a failure, and thus successfully denied your claimed repair, your wty is still valid for the remainder of its term, as to other defects that may arise. If, for example, your radio dies, it's going to be awfully hard for the mfr to prove that a lack of oil changes caused that problem. Verdict: still covered.
 
Messages
2,440
Location
snowblind in TX
Having been on the dealer side of this: You need to keep receipts for purchased oil and filters, and it is also a good idea (not mandatory) to have some sort of log book that records mileage and maintenance work done. When I saw a conscientious customer with logs and receipts it went a long way to remove any questions in my mind, and the mind of district reps that had input on the warranty status of a vehicle. Rest assured, if you go to a dealer with a base engine concern, a concern that can in any way be tied to lack of maintenance on the part of the owner, it can/will be a tooth and nail fight if you have no proof of maintenance. It is all about common sense and saving yourself potential hassles that costs your time, stress, and in a worst case scenario, attorneys fees.
 
Messages
2,724
Location
Herndon, Virginia
Heck, I'm so paranoid, I pulled my Fumoto valve and dumped PP that only had 6K (for pennzoil dino 5W20)on it to avoid any nonsense, and the car was going in for a broken transmission bracket. That search for any way possible to scroo a customer out of their warranty is one more reason why they're the Stealership.
 
Messages
232
Location
Aviation Capital
MG buy a spiral notebook at Xmart. Keep entries on activity (092506)date (3156)miles oil change 5/30 brand X oil PL14006 oil filter This helps you remember the oil & filter data. At the front between the cover and first page keep receipts for future reference. Also write down part numbers as you use them. Alternator/ kwiky parts 99654-1 (lifetime) This helps you remember where you bought and where to return and warranty status.
 
Messages
47,800
Location
Everson WA - Pacific NW USA
Quote:
Quote:
Also I use all the same DLC oil for the change and retain an unopened bottle until the next change (not necessary, but safe).
What do you mean by this? What does DLC stand for?
I mean if it takes 5 qts of oil to change your oil – buy 6 or more qts. of the SAME date/lot code (DLC) which is marked on the bottle. So in case you, the car mfr or the oil company suspects there was something wrong with the oil, you will have an unopened bottle of virgin oil from the same batch. As I stated this is NOT necessary in general, but is not a paranoid practice either.
 
Messages
9,365
Location
USA
I just keep the receipts for the oil and filter and log them into the owners manual log with a UOA to back it up. My 06 Vibe has a ridiculous OCI, 3 months or 5000 miles whichever comes first. No way I'm changing my oil every 3 months. My six month old vibe has about 5000 miles on it right now. In three months, only 2300 miles on Havoline synthetic SL.
 
Messages
2,440
Location
snowblind in TX
Quote:
That search for any way possible to scroo a customer out of their warranty is one more reason why they're the Stealership.
That is absolutely not the case. If the dealership had it's way it would slam warranty repairs on every car that came in the door. The tech makes money, the service department makes money and the parts department makes money, most importantly the dealer principle makes money. The problems arise when the beancounters in mid level positions get contacted (mandatory for many dealerships to do on repairs over a specified amount) about a $3500 engine replacement. Once the beancounters are involved it is a different ballgame and it can get nasty for all parties involved. When a dealer is too "nice" to customers and warranty trends rise too far then an auditor from corporate gets sent in to review all work orders. Our auditor was Arnie "The Hammer" Sosa. Nice guy, but he did manage to hit our dealership with $120K of chargebacks during his visit. Heads rolled over that one. It really isn't a matter of dealers being dicks because they want to (well, most of the time).
 
Messages
2,724
Location
Herndon, Virginia
Well, Punisher, I'm not going to contradict you on what you guys do, but I recently did a two-step with a Hyundai dealer over a mild "weep" of manual tranny fluid discovered by a Tires Plus dealer that noticed it while rotating my tires. The Tires Plus guy pulled the fill plug, made sure it had oil to the top (it did), and showed me the drain plug was tight. Then he advised me to take it to the dealer for a look-see (car only has 17500 miles). So, I took it to a scheduled appointment to a dealer close to home, but not the dealer I bought it from, who had serviced my last car, a 92 Hyundai. They grumped about my not having bought the car from them, but took it in to look at it. While writing the ticket, the writer informed me that Tires Plus checking the fluid constituted "tampering", and the leak wouldn't be covered under warranty. I immediately requested a meeting with the service manager and discussed Magnuson-Moss with him, and reminded him they would call my NOT having the leak checked negligence, which they also would not cover (somewhat more legitimately so). He agreed they would cover the leak whatever it was. They took the car in, and in two seconds showed me a loose drain bolt, which, 24 hours before was TIGHT. These things don't work loose, please. They then sent me on my way. Two days, several drops of oil on the driveway and a funny noise pulling away from a dead stop later, the car took a trip to the dealer I purchased it from, who had the car for seven days to replace a broken bracket on the tranny case. They covered the repair, but declared the bracket looked as though it had been hammered, or damaged by road debris. So, while YOUR dealer may be fair and square, Punisher, MY choices are 1: A disgruntled dealer that dodged fixing my car, partly for "tampering", and partly because I didn't buy the car from them, and 2: A dealer that needs seven days to fix a simple bracket, offers no loaner, and makes a general purpose accusation (believe it or not, against the first dealer) of vandalism or abuse of the vehicle. It does NOT inspire confidence. Lord knows what they would have pulled had I not replaced the Fumoto drain with the stock drain bolt (for the engine oil), and changed the oil using a spare OEM filter. MY dealers for this car are incompetent on the one hand, and crooked on the other, unless of course, they're called on it in advance. And what's the average person, unaware of Magnuson-Moss and desperate for their car going to do but pay? I have other vehicles to drive, but surely not everyone does, and the Stealer knows it. The dealers sow the seeds of this discontent, they deserve their reputation and the title Stealership. Again, if you guys are fair and square, fine, but I cringe at the next time I have to take this thing in to them. I'm very much tempted to trade it for another brand before that happens. Be careful folks. Very.
 
Messages
2,440
Location
snowblind in TX
I hate to hear stories like that. Stuff like that is the reason dealerships in general are held in such low regard. If there is a problem, then there is a problem that deserves to be fixed. You bought the car and the warranty along with it. I couldn't really fathom jerking around a customer with a legitimate complaint. I can remember during monthly meetings we would discuss our warranty trend sheets. A trend sheet ranks your number of repairs, by category (electrical, engine performance, brakes, base engine, transmission, AC, suspension) and compares your number of repairs, cost of repairs, CPVS (cost per vehicle serviced)etc. It is very possible for a dealer to get in trouble/trend high with certain repairs (transmission for example)and have to cut back on transmission related repairs for a month to get the numbers down. Its a no win situation. You have to please the customers, keep your CSI (customer satisfaction index) and QC up, while holding warranty costs down so corporate doesn't have a hissy fit (see earlier post about "audit"). Still no excuse for refusing a legitimate claim.
 
Messages
2,338
Location
Charlotte Metro area
Dealers, as well as techs and service writers, are people. People are varied in their level of honesty, sense of fair play, and abilities. NO all-encompassing statement summarizing the characteristics of each individual in the entire group in question will fairly portray them all. I have personally seen dealerships where I could not trust them to do a basic service correctly on my Saab (Johnson Motor Company in Augusta, GA)...they put the wrong oil in once, overfilled it by a quart another time, jammed the lug nut remover in the nut well severely enough that they damaged the wheel, busted a bracket that holds in the cabin filter, and couldn't fix a squeak in the clutch pedal...something I fixed myself in 10 seconds. I was only going there because the services were "free". I wouldn't have known how bad they were screwing up, except that I watched them and checked behind them. OTOH, Gerald Jones Subaru dealership service is top-notch, I watched them. I'd trust them to do anything on my Subaru...as I watched them diagnose and replace a faulty resonator. I do all the oil and fluid changes, but, I'm sure if I went to them for those, I'd get much better results than at the Saab/Cadillac Johnson Motor Company joint....because I've watched them schlep through their work.
 
Messages
2,636
Location
Arizona
I keep all of my receipts and also a simple Excel spreadsheet of all maintenance. When I sold my used truck in April, the detailed maintenance records helped me get my asking price.
 
Messages
2,724
Location
Herndon, Virginia
Titan
Dealers, as well as techs and service writers, are people. People are varied in their level of honesty, sense of fair play, and abilities. NO all-encompassing statement summarizing the characteristics of each individual in the entire group in question will fairly portray them all.
I understand that completely, Titan, which is why I'm not quoting dealer names, and also why I don't ascribe these practices to Punisher. The dealer that finally DID fix my car's tranny, previously for many years did excellent work quickly and fairly on my Hyundais from the earliest days of their presence on these shores (bought my first Hyundai in 86, an Excel GLS). Same for the dealer that did NOT fix my car in this incident. Meanwhile, if I choose to keep this car, I have to bring it back to them someday, it's no secret who I am if any of them were looking in, so I don't defame them or name them. In a couple of moments dripping with irony, they called a few days later, separate calls, one from each dealer, to survey my "service experience". Again, I didn't unload on either of them as I may have to go back someday. No sense setting up hostility in advance. These warranties are a form of tyranny, there are too many personalities involved, and in this case, all of them overworked, underpaid and overstressed and looking for "payback" and power. I'll never subject myself to this by buying a new car ever again.
 
Messages
137
Location
Milwaukee
The law mentioned far above is called "Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act". A search engine will bring many results and desriptions from attorneys, states, and even the FTC. It covers everything with a written and implied warrenty. Always save reciepts when you do you own work, and keep records. Its your only defense, your only proof, that you did your part to maintain your car. Without such proof, a TSB, or best case..a recall, your in for a long, stressfull fight. And from friends that have been in and out of dealer networks, each said every dealer makes FAR more money on everyday repairs and "routine work" when compared to warrenty work. So it would seem logical to me, dealers often give us a hard time on major warrenty work becasue they dont make as much money as they could with other repairs.
 
Messages
9,427
Location
Pensacola & Vero Beach FL
Quote:
The law mentioned far above is called "Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act". A search engine will bring many results and desriptions from attorneys, states, and even the FTC. It covers everything with a written and implied warrenty. Always save reciepts when you do you own work, and keep records. Its your only defense, your only proof, that you did your part to maintain your car. Without such proof, a TSB, or best case..a recall, your in for a long, stressfull fight. (...snip...)
None of this is bad advice. What bothers me is that almost always, a couple key things get overlooked. First, while again, it's unquestionably better practice to have all your receipts on hand, one is not doomed to fight a long fight if one's paper collection is less than perfect. Even if the front line dealer folks give the owner a hard time at first, it won't be long before the lawyers take a look at a possible denial case. If they recognize that they can't prove that the owner is at fault, they'll probably pull the plug and settle the the case quickly. Second, and related to the above, remember that under the MMWA, it is the manufacturer that has to prove that the owner caused a problem, NOT the owner who must prove that he did everything right. Missing (or non-existent) receipts for upkeep work may or may not indicate a problem, and their absence certainly won't, without more, prove that that the owner caused the problem (maybe he did, maybe he didn't). Owners should strive to keep good records, but should not give up a wty claim if they can't produce records.
 
Messages
1,571
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA
Quote:
Well, then they should tell us that up front before we buy new cars from them. They suck, they're crooks, and that's that. Stealerships, plainly and simply. Ask anyone..
Don't ask me. I don't agree. It is unreasonable to paint all of us that have been involved with the auto repair industry with the same broad brush. My experience is that there are more honest dealers than dishonest ones. By far. The bad ones spoil it for the rest, as in many things in life.
 
Messages
1,571
Location
Thousand Oaks, CA
I would like to add to the overall discussion that in my experience as a Service Manager that I was instructed by the factory to not question the oil change history unless there was evidence of abuse. If the engine was slugged up then we were to ask for proof of maintenance. If you take care of your car, the question should never come up. If you don't take care of it, you're headed for trouble anyway. Personally, I keep a log on a small spiral binder that I keep in the glove box. I don't bother with the receipts. There is one exception to the above rule about not asking for proof of maintenance unless there is clear evidence of abuse and that is with aftermarket extended warranty companies. They seem to be able to play by a different set of rules. They will often send an inspector to verify the needed repairs and they usually require the maintenance records for review. I have had many of them accept a customer log (like I keep) as long as there was no evidence of abuse so that the maintenance record looke ligitimate. Evidently they don't have to answer to Magnason/Moss.
 
Top