Made in Germany......

[Y_K]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
I remember reading somewhere that Stalin himself, while railing against the decadance of the West, demanded US made appliances for his residences. Frigidaire was a favorite.
Pick the better reading next time. Stalin involved in this stuff personally? Myth

Quote:
But as far as the Germans? Much of their success is our fault.

Success is not a zero sum game. Germans do deserve the highest praise. Cultural superiority of Germans and Japanese is undeniable in my eyes. DDR was still the cleanest barrack in the Socialist Camp, as it was called by CPSU.
Both SU and US developed their atomic and space programs utilising the German bodies and their technology after the War.

Of course, they could not boot-strap themselves alone. Turks helped a lot initially. But this is another short-term benefit vs long-term liability story akin to your black slaves.
Of course, US guaranteed their very existence for another 50 years after the war, and the issue is still present despite all the claims of the Cold War victory. Leave the Europe and see what happens. Vacuum tends to be filled by the most aggressive force.

 

[Spazdog]

meh...

when you consider what kind of megalomaniac Josef Stalin was, it's too far-fetched. I wish I could remember where I got that information. I do know that while Stalin did not live as extravagantly as the Romanovs had, he did have quite a few luxury Dacha cottages. Quite in contrast to the proletariat movement he "represented".

But to restate my case: To the victor belongs the spoils....unless you are the United States. The rule is different for the US. It's "You break it you buy it." That started sometime after the US-Mexican War. When? I do not know.

Let's not forget that the "cultural superiority" spawned two of the most evil regimes ever known. Just when you think that nothing could have been worse than the Nazis, you read some atrocity of the Imperial Japanese.

The DDR may have been the "cleanest barrack in the Socialist Camp" but that didn't do much for "superior German production".

Just compare a Trabant to a Mercedes Benz

The US Army did not destroy, occupy, or dismantle the press factory at Heidelberg. I don't know why, they just didn't. Heidelberg began production of printing presses almost immediately upon Germany's surrender. They are quite fortunate to have been in the US controlled section of Germany. I guarantee the Soviets would have dismantled that factory and trucked it back into Stalingrad. I'm certain there are a bunch of factories that if the US and UK weren't helping (ie: Volkswagen with their stolen industrial welder) they were being left alone. Not raided and destroyed.

The US culture may be inferior to the "German Culture", but I guarantee, the Germans were never that magnanimous in victory.

BMW did have a fairly nasty sanction put on them by the US and Brits....they couldn't build for 3 years. But given the state of destruction in Munich, it might have taken them that long to get started anyway. It wasn't Dresden, but it wasn't much better. Munich was rebuilt, at least in part, by US dollars and British pounds.

I don't know how the Japanese rose from their own irradiated ashes. We were not so magnanimous with them. But if it had been the decks of any other nation's battleship instead of the USS Missouri that those surrender papers were signed on, Japan would no longer be a sovereign nation.

 

[hattaresguy]

Germany is very successful at competing for manufacturing on a global basses, there model is one we should take a close look at.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
I don't know how the Japanese rose from their own irradiated ashes. We were not so magnanimous with them. But if it had been the decks of any other nation's battleship instead of the USS Missouri that those surrender papers were signed on, Japan would no longer be a sovereign nation.


You save a lot of resource not having to pay for defense in your national budget and have a massive military base that requires your constant industrial and civilian work.

 

[morris]

most companys over seas dont understand what a non compete clause is. just ask caterpillar. they think rules ect dont apply to them. if i had my way we wouldnt import any thing that cost more than $10. AND NO I DONT CARE ABOUT THE OTHER GUY.

 

[zyxelenator]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: zyxelenator
IBM racks with servers say "Assembled in US from US and non US parts" Old cisco routers and switches say made in US, I believe same as for new ones. Seen some cables say "China", KVM splitter said Malaysia, Power stripper/surge protector inside the rack said Taiwan. Wonder about IBM servers itself, probably asian made. Old circuit board from "Racal Datacom" said USA.


Must be some old Cisco gear. Even my old 1841 is Asian-assembled.
Yeah, you are right. Most say Country of Origin is USA, but don't say where it's made.Old 1800s say H.K, Hong Kong I guess, some newer expansion modules say China.

 

[Propflux01]

My Klasse All in One is made in Germany!

 

[needsducktape]

Originally Posted By: zyxelenator
Originally Posted By: crinkles
just anecdotally here, i know VW has returned production of the Golf from south africa to Germany again. I think they are thrying to improve their economy by producing more from germany.
As I know, diesel Golfs and Jettas(new) are made in Germany. That explains why there was a line to get one when they came to US market.


Is there statistical evidence that a VW made in Germany is more reliable than one made in Mexico? (all other factors being equal) I would like to see it.

My old Audi turbo was stamped made in Germany and that was a pile of cow dung. So much so, that 6 years AFTER I sold it I still get mailed recall and class action lawsuit notices from time to time...

Once again, I think the executive bean counters making the decisions matter more than where its made.
Not many people complain about Apple products -just about every one is made in China.

And here is the real killer: Sham wow is made in Germany.
(haha)

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: needsducktape
My old Audi turbo was stamped made in Germany and that was a pile of cow dung. So much so, that 6 years AFTER I sold it I still get mailed recall and class action lawsuit notices from time to time...

Once again, I think the executive bean counters making the decisions matter more than where its made.


One "culture" about German Engineering (I used to work for a German owned engineering company) is that while they do work hard and their work quality are usually good, they do not like to follow a defensive "idiot proof" approach in terms of risk taking.

They design for best case scenario, with high expectation of what the operating condition would be and demand the user to stick to the guideline. When things happen, they "tend to" accuse the operating condition or user and do not doubt their work until very solid evidence prove otherwise.

Japanese tends to be the exact opposite, they would be scared of making changes on proven work unless it is proven changes are necessary. Decisions are usually picking the most proven and reliable approach and stick to what is already working instead of finding the best approach.

In your case, it is likely the original design is on the bleeding edge and the R&D are done with the assumption of lab condition fuel, lubrication, care and maintenance. Unfortunately it isn't like that in the real world so you get that kind of problems.

 

[Y_K]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
The US culture may be inferior to the "German Culture", but I guarantee, the Germans were never that magnanimous in victory.

My point: it was not. Now it is. I may have rendered it poorly. The core of this country has changed from a loose bunch of fiercely independent individualists to a gang of well cemented entitlement recipients.
Btw, the old core was about 40% German.

 

[zyxelenator]

I did'nt say Mexican made VW is worse. My stepmom has 03 Golf TDI since new. No problems at all,injectors needed cleening, won't start one day,that's it. My dad used to have old audi,almoust worst car he ever had. I think first place for most junk he had was some old oldsmobile or ford tempo,not sure which one was worse.

 

[Y_K]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
You save a lot of resource not having to pay for defense in your national budget and have a massive military base that requires your constant industrial and civilian work.

Could not agree more. To a large degree, the same applied to Germany.

 

[zyxelenator]

I did'nt say Mexican made VW is worse. My stepmom has 03 Golf TDI since new. No problems at all,injectors needed cleening, won't start one day,that's it. My dad used to have old audi,almoust worst car he ever had. I think first place for most junk he had was some old oldsmobile or ford tempo,not sure which one was worse.

 

[L_Sludger]

Originally Posted By: GROUCHO MARX
I'm going door to door selling "No Solicitors, Please." signs.
I wish I could "Like" or "Plus One" this comment.

 

[urchin]

Originally Posted By: rg200amp


There are MANY people saying "I only buy American" and "America has to stop importing everything, we should build it here".

Too them I say:

Put on a hard hat, a set of rubber gloves, and get a job in a manufacturing plant. You'll find most go silent.

I do not want to manufacture. You don't want to manufacture.

My family members dont want to. My neighbor's dont want to. My friends don't want to.



With the exception of your ancedotal comments here I don't believe that Americans don't want to work in manufacturing for one single second. If the jobs pay even decently above what the local fast food joint can offer I can promise you that you have thousands lining up for the chance to get one of those jobs that according to you no one wants.

I also don't buy that products would be so expensive that folks wouldn't buy them . They would be a bit higher priced but when you consider the transport costs now to bring stuff in from China the difference becomes MUCH MUCH LESS.

Also WE HAVE UNFAIR TRADE AGREEMENTS WITH CHINA THAT ALLOW THEM TO IMPOSE TARIFFS ON OUR GOODS BUT WE CAN'T ON THEIRS!!!!

I say we need to impose in kind tariffs on imported goods from China just like they do to us.

If those jobs came home we would be a thriving nation once again.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: needsducktape
Originally Posted By: zyxelenator
Originally Posted By: crinkles
just anecdotally here, i know VW has returned production of the Golf from south africa to Germany again. I think they are thrying to improve their economy by producing more from germany.
As I know, diesel Golfs and Jettas(new) are made in Germany. That explains why there was a line to get one when they came to US market.


Is there statistical evidence that a VW made in Germany is more reliable than one made in Mexico? (all other factors being equal) I would like to see it.

My old Audi turbo was stamped made in Germany and that was a pile of cow dung. So much so, that 6 years AFTER I sold it I still get mailed recall and class action lawsuit notices from time to time...

Once again, I think the executive bean counters making the decisions matter more than where its made.
Not many people complain about Apple products -just about every one is made in China.

And here is the real killer: Sham wow is made in Germany.
(haha)


No it isn't. My aunt has a few (she's a TV buying person), it is made in China. I know advertising states otherwise.

And lots of complaints about Apple. Just not from the fanboys.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: urchin
Originally Posted By: rg200amp


There are MANY people saying "I only buy American" and "America has to stop importing everything, we should build it here".

Too them I say:

Put on a hard hat, a set of rubber gloves, and get a job in a manufacturing plant. You'll find most go silent.

I do not want to manufacture. You don't want to manufacture.

My family members dont want to. My neighbor's dont want to. My friends don't want to.



With the exception of your ancedotal comments here I don't believe that Americans don't want to work in manufacturing for one single second. If the jobs pay even decently above what the local fast food joint can offer I can promise you that you have thousands lining up for the chance to get one of those jobs that according to you no one wants.

I also don't buy that products would be so expensive that folks wouldn't buy them . They would be a bit higher priced but when you consider the transport costs now to bring stuff in from China the difference becomes MUCH MUCH LESS.

Also WE HAVE UNFAIR TRADE AGREEMENTS WITH CHINA THAT ALLOW THEM TO IMPOSE TARIFFS ON OUR GOODS BUT WE CAN'T ON THEIRS!!!!

I say we need to impose in kind tariffs on imported goods from China just like they do to us.

If those jobs came home we would be a thriving nation once again.



I agree completely. And the people living on Social Assistance could be put to work as well. America has an obscene number of unemployed people.

I don't know how anybody can logically try to argue that the departure of manufacturing is "healthy" when you have 30 million unemployed, whilst countries who have kept a strong industrial base have far less unemployment..... Oh, and aren't trillions in debt either.

People want to work. Not everybody is designed to do service jobs. Not everybody is designed to be management. But people need to work. People have not changed since we were strong in all levels of manufacturing. The same types of people who did those jobs then, are still around to do those jobs now. Those jobs simply don't exist anymore.

As I said earlier: If the US could bring their level of unemployment down to the same level as Germany, they would have TEN MILLION more tax payers. TEN MILLION more consumers, and TEN MILLION people putting money back into the economy, instead of sucking money out of it.

Combined with the reduction of Chinese imports that those jobs would provide.... I can't see a down-side.

 

[Trav]

Quote:
If the US could bring their level of unemployment down to the same level as Germany, they would have TEN MILLION more tax payers. TEN MILLION more consumers, and TEN MILLION people putting money back into the economy, instead of sucking money out of it.

Combined with the reduction of Chinese imports that those jobs would provide.... I can't see a down-side.


There is no downside other than people waking up to the fact they don't need a nanny state and Government handouts to survive.
That would not be in the best interest of some of the politicians who want us to believe that is exactly what we need.

 

[PandaBear]

It is very difficult, not impossible, to manufacture in the US.

Labor is very expensive, not only in manufacturing, but also in services like engineering, sales, logistics. They get automated and reduced as much as they get outsourced.

$14 / hr (after benefit and tax probably cost employer $20/hr) is not a lot of money to live on in Japan, Germany, and especially in the US since medical is not covered by the government, but it is significantly more than the $3-4/hr in China and probably $5-6/hr in Mexico.

It is very hard to get those jobs back to the US unless the transportation cost becomes significant and wipe out any savings on low labor cost.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
It is very difficult, not impossible, to manufacture in the US.

Labor is very expensive, not only in manufacturing, but also in services like engineering, sales, logistics. They get automated and reduced as much as they get outsourced.

$14 / hr (after benefit and tax probably cost employer $20/hr) is not a lot of money to live on in Japan, Germany, and especially in the US since medical is not covered by the government, but it is significantly more than the $3-4/hr in China and probably $5-6/hr in Mexico.

It is very hard to get those jobs back to the US unless the transportation cost becomes significant and wipe out any savings on low labor cost.



I'm sure many people in Canada earning $9 or $10/hr at Tim Hortons/Wendy's/McDonalds would be pretty happy with that $14/hr.

Companies need to CHOOSE to bring those jobs back to North America. I'd say consumers need to demand it, but then I don't think most care enough, or think enough about the impact of their purchases to make that feasible.