Made in Germany......

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
The excuse is if you are willing to pay medical equipment price you can make anything you want anywhere.

How much do you pay for the cable that's made in Germany? and how many units do they make in a year? oh, you mean hundreds million? no? you must mean a hundred thousand then. no? what? hundred?


That's a ridiculous argument.

If I'm willing to pay the price for Cisco or Juniper gear (it is no cheaper than medical equipment) then why the heck doesn't it come with 1st-world sourced cables sir?


Because your cable is standardized, the medical one is not (likely made in small batches).

I used to work for a robotics company that made stuff in the US, even including the cable. Ok, the plastic wires are probably import from Japan or China and connectorized in the US by a contractor, but that's the same as the Germany one, they are likely from import raw material as well.

The point is, your medical equipment are probably made in the volume of a couple thousand a year, and Cisco's cable are probably standardized that you buy by the miles and millions already made in China with bullet proof reliability. So, why would you compare the 2?

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
The taxes from the products would go to the American government instead of China. I don't see the downside?


China Tax Haven in Swiss, Bermuda, Bahamas

 

[crinkles]

just anecdotally here, i know VW has returned production of the Golf from south africa to Germany again. I think they are thrying to improve their economy by producing more from germany.

 

[zyxelenator]

Originally Posted By: crinkles
just anecdotally here, i know VW has returned production of the Golf from south africa to Germany again. I think they are thrying to improve their economy by producing more from germany.
As I know, diesel Golfs and Jettas(new) are made in Germany. That explains why there was a line to get one when they came to US market.

 

[mpvue]

my company makes electronic components for fiber optics here in PA, all our equipment is made in the USA, and our biggest customer is Chinese companies.
lots of stuff still made in the USA; http://stillmadeinusa.com/

just looking in the kitchen, we have a Viking range, All Clad cookware, Lodge cookware and a Corian countertop, all USA made.
the fridge is Samsung, Korean company but I never checked to see where its actually made. (it's real nice too, rock solid reliable for about 6-8 yrs now).
interestingly, although Lodge makes their cast iron cookware in TN, they also have a line of enameled cast iron that has to be imported; environmental regs and cost prohibited them from making it here.

 

[The_Jeff]

I wonder if the German medical industry needs some obtuse certification (like FDA or ISO 9001) that can best be solved by keeping the ancillary parts "onshore" if not in-house. Kind of a vertical integration/ Keiretsu situation.

 

[CivicFan]

I drive a German car that was assembled in North Carolina. I had to replace the rear bearing on it and the replacement part, BMW OEM, was made in Slovakia. It has rims made in the Czech Republic that have tires made in South Korea.

Not sure about the other components in the car but labor usually constitutes the highest percentage of the costs in any assembly operation.

 

[rg200amp]

Originally Posted By: zyxelenator
Originally Posted By: crinkles
just anecdotally here, i know VW has returned production of the Golf from south africa to Germany again. I think they are thrying to improve their economy by producing more from germany.
As I know, diesel Golfs and Jettas(new) are made in Germany. That explains why there was a line to get one when they came to US market.


Golfs=Germany

Jettas=Mexico

 

[CivicFan]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
I wonder if the German medical industry needs some obtuse certification (like FDA or ISO 9001) that can best be solved by keeping the ancillary parts "onshore" if not in-house. Kind of a vertical integration/ Keiretsu situation.


Could be. Or they have found that outsourced parts do not last as long as they require. These devices are expected to function without any issues for their expected life.

When I was sourcing MRI machines for one of our hospitals a few years back, the expectation was that it would function at all times. When you pay $1.5 million on a device and the expected life is 5 years, you want to have it in constant use without downtime. It is unacceptable for the device to be down because of a cheap $5 power adapter failure.

 

[kb01]

Not entirely on topic but as an interesting aside...

I have several cousins and in-laws who still live in the "old country" (Poland, Slovakia, and Hungary). They make an incredible effort to look for "Made in USA". To them, that's a major mark of quality. The ones who have any money at all, very proudly, drive Chevrolets and Chryslers.

I believe one of the reasons why Germany is such an industrial powerhouse is because they were able to completely start anew with industry from the 1950's to the 1970's. They got a leg up and were able to keep their competitiveness.

During the same period in the USA, a very large portion of our manufacturing still went on in plants dating prior to the turn of the century. They were incredibly outdated in terms of efficiency and employee/management relations. What kept them running was the fact that they were supplying a world, which was destroyed by WWII, with manufactured goods. The collapse of manufacturing in the 1970s should have happened a decade earlier but was delayed due to production for the Vietnam War.

When the industrial collapse happened (1970's & 1980's), it was at a time when it was cheaper to outsource. Instead of tearing down and rebuilding plants domestically, equipment was sent abroad. When I was a kid, my Dad worked at the Homestead Works in Pittsburgh, so I got to watch the de-industrialization process first hand.

I may just be bitter in my old age, but I'm thoroughly convinced that as a nation, we're just living off the residual wealth of our industrial period (1870 - 1980). Decades upon decades of massive trade deficits will eventually catch up with us.

 

[CivicFan]

I've heard Pittsburgh is now a better place to live than when it was an industrial city.

 

[kb01]

Originally Posted By: CivicFan
I've heard Pittsburgh is now a better place to live than when it was an industrial city.


It really depends on how you define "better". My family has been there since the 1890s and I grew up in the Hazelwood neighborhood.

There is definitely less pollution but that's come at a price. My grandmother was a nurse and she would have to change her clothes when she got to work because of all the soot. It was once one of the most prosperous cities in the world, with more millionaires per capita than anywhere else. Virtually anyone could make a decent middle class wage.

Some neighborhoods have gentrified but many more have declined. It's definitely done better than other rust belt cities (Cleavland, Youngstown, Cincinnati, Toledo, etc.) and I would definitely move back but it's just not the same city as it was before. Unfortunately, I think the very notion of a middle class city and mixed income neighborhoods are gone forever in the USA.

 

[sciphi]

The only way to make a good buck in the US anymore is to find a niche and stick with it. Make yourself hard to replace, and the powers that be will think twice before replacing you with somebody cheaper.

There are lots of jobs out there maintaining industrial equipment. A friend's son was doing an apprenticeship to maintain and install industrial equipment from guys with 30 years experience making over $30 an hour. They were glad to have him since he worked hard, asked good questions, and didn't mind getting his hands dirty alongside them. Most of those guys were genuinely concerned about who would replace them since the pipeline for replacement workers was nearly empty.

Not everybody can have a glamorous job in a high-rise in Manhattan. Somebody's got to make sure the HVAC works, the elevators work, and the electricity stays on. All of those pay pretty well, if you don't mind the work.

It looks like Germany has figured out that not everybody needs to have a degree in Underwater Basketweaving in order to make stuff. That being said, we do need at least one underwater basketweaver to fill the museums with pretty baskets.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: zyxelenator
IBM racks with servers say "Assembled in US from US and non US parts" Old cisco routers and switches say made in US, I believe same as for new ones. Seen some cables say "China", KVM splitter said Malaysia, Power stripper/surge protector inside the rack said Taiwan. Wonder about IBM servers itself, probably asian made. Old circuit board from "Racal Datacom" said USA.


Must be some old Cisco gear. Even my old 1841 is Asian-assembled.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
The excuse is if you are willing to pay medical equipment price you can make anything you want anywhere.

How much do you pay for the cable that's made in Germany? and how many units do they make in a year? oh, you mean hundreds million? no? you must mean a hundred thousand then. no? what? hundred?


That's a ridiculous argument.

If I'm willing to pay the price for Cisco or Juniper gear (it is no cheaper than medical equipment) then why the heck doesn't it come with 1st-world sourced cables sir?


Because your cable is standardized, the medical one is not (likely made in small batches).

I used to work for a robotics company that made stuff in the US, even including the cable. Ok, the plastic wires are probably import from Japan or China and connectorized in the US by a contractor, but that's the same as the Germany one, they are likely from import raw material as well.

The point is, your medical equipment are probably made in the volume of a couple thousand a year, and Cisco's cable are probably standardized that you buy by the miles and millions already made in China with bullet proof reliability. So, why would you compare the 2?


Nice try sir. I give you an "A" for effort. However, some of these cables are just standard fiber-optic and PC power cables. Others are just standard RS232. Nothing special at all, other than the fact they were made in a first-world nation.

The AC Adapter is 5V, 3A. Similar to what comes with many consumer routers.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

Originally Posted By: Y_K
We extrapolate and generalise too much, and things are not as linear as we would like them to be. I have seen tons of German junk and high quality made in China. The differences are cultural. Germans will buy any junk as long as it is made in Germany and Americans will buy any junk as long as it is 'a good deal'. 57 million Americans are on some sort of public assistance, e.g food stamps, even though it is a [censored] assistance. Germans have excellent Sozial, yet they do not abuse it as much. And add to the numbers millions of phony SSI cases. Consumerism became passive addiction be it goods or politics. Germans have a lot to be proud of, so do Americans. Most of it is in past, sadly. Mercedes C-Class is a symbol too. Not a happy symbol. Still Germans are far more competitive.
Sad truth is 90% of modern Americans would fail if they had to do what their ancestors did, when crossed the ocean. They do not know English, let alone other languages. Nor do they possess portable skills. The schools are the middle class factories. How can we save the middle class, when the schools are in shambles? They have so many superintendents, assistant principals, conflict resolution coordinators, multicultural officers, counselors and no discipline and respect for the most ignorant and unqualified teachers in the world..


Little to disagree with here.

 

[benjamming]

Originally Posted By: needsducktape
Random thoughts:
#2 I think I was most sad when my favorite shoe company, NEW BALANCE (long time supporter of Made in the USA), moved manufacturing to China.


They still make several shoes in the US. They define made in US as 70% or greater.

When I was searching for a cordless drill, Festool is made in Germany even the battery charger. That's the only consumer grade battery charger I think that I've seen not made in China.

 

[Nick R]

As I pointed out and showed in the review, there are a lot of Made in Germany, Czech Republic parts on the cruze.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: kb01

I have several cousins and in-laws who still live in the "old country" (Poland, Slovakia, and Hungary). They make an incredible effort to look for "Made in USA". To them, that's a major mark of quality. The ones who have any money at all, very proudly, drive Chevrolets and Chryslers.

I believe one of the reasons why Germany is such an industrial powerhouse is because they were able to completely start anew with industry from the 1950's to the 1970's. They got a leg up and were able to keep their competitiveness.


I remember reading somewhere that Stalin himself, while railing against the decadance of the West, demanded US made appliances for his residences. Frigidaire was a favorite.

But as far as the Germans? Much of their success is our fault.
There's this perception that they singlehandedly bootstrapped themselves up from the ashes of WWII. And they did work hard....no question about that. But one only needs to go back a quarter of a century and compare the former DDR to FRG to see the contributions of the Americans and Brits.

Volkswagen owes their current state to a British Army Officer. He hid a large welding rig, that the Nazis had stolen from a French automaker, from being returned to France. This welder was integral to the production of the Type 1 and without it there would be no VW today.
The late '40s and throughout the '50s are full of stories like this.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Nice try sir. I give you an "A" for effort. However, some of these cables are just standard fiber-optic and PC power cables. Others are just standard RS232. Nothing special at all, other than the fact they were made in a first-world nation.

The AC Adapter is 5V, 3A. Similar to what comes with many consumer routers.


Thanks for the award

It may be done due to the amount of work required to certify a design or the cost of these cables and power supply being insignificant (and the volume being low) to justify the outsource and design change then.

I still have reservation on why they would do it. Maybe because they want the image that their purchasers are getting 100% German made quality (marketing), or maybe they have special requirement (i.e. shielding to protect against Xray), or once the design is certified any change would risk having to redo the certification again.

Many lower cost items in high volume do get outsourced even from Germany, maybe medical are different.