M1 vs. PUP Observations

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293
Location
MN
This post is a bit dated in information, but I felt I owed it to BITOG to share it as the group influenced my choice of PCMO. Having worked for Mobil, I was a die-hard Mobil 1 user for years. Until Shell bought Pennzoil and came out with GTL Ultra Platinum motor oil. BITOGers posted excellent reviews, UOA's, etc., and Shell's advertising with the cleanliness over M1 didn't hurt either. So I changed to PUP and have been with it ever since. Here's what I noticed - my OCI's were fairly regular before I retired...3x per year on all vehicles @ 6k miles, except RV which averaged 3k miles per summer. The vehicles OEM Manual specs different SAE vis for each vehicle, which I stick with. - oil consumption averaged app. 1 quart per OCI (@ 6k) on M1 per passenger vehicle. after change to PUP, there is no noticeable oil consumption on the dipsticks - on any vehicle. - oil consumption on the RV averaged 1 quart per OCI (@ 3k) on M1. after change to PUP, there is no noticeable oil consumption on the dipstick. - 1st oil changes with PUP had noticeably darker oil drains. I don't have UOA to prove whether this is advantageous or not, but I would think so? Neither do I know why since I don't know the base stock recipes. I suspect PUP has a better base oil with lower NOACK and better DD additive package. If the rings and grooves are cleaner, the pistons are sealing better (less sticking)? Again, this is educated speculation based on what little is known about these oils. Since PUP was first introduced, Mobil responded with "EP", but I haven't tried it. I've been pleased enough with PUP's performance and availability (now days) to not experiment further. The new GDI engines have me wondering what is optimal, though. I have one of these now, and surely more on the way.
 
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391
Location
MD
When I switched from M1 to PUP in 2 engines I immediately noticed smoother and quieter performance. And I second faster darkening of oil. But consumption in my case went up a bit. M1 vs PUP 5w30.
 
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35,631
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NY
I had good luck with PUP for several years. I switched to Mobil 1 ESP however. IMO the original formula of PUP was much better than what it evolved into, and I feel ESP is a better product. It will be quite a while before I have any UOA data, but based on my reading, and speaking with people in the know I feel I made the right choice. Opinions will vary, my flame suit is on.
 
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413
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Florida
Using M1 in my 19 Sorento GDI but only due to the fact I scored the Walmart M1 deal a while back. Will switch back to PP next oil change. According to tests I've seen it has a better NOACK and PP less expensive.
 
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34,153
Location
Southern NJ
Oils are constantly changing over time. I've never had consumption issues with any brand. A lot of people do experience oil consumption when switching brands and also with different brands, for unknown reasons. Someone on here actually experienced more oil consumption with Amsoil, go figure.... The Noack of Pennzoil Platinum oils is actually higher than Mobil 1 EP. M1 EP 5w30 Noack - 8% Mobil 1 EP 0w20 Noack - 10% One of the reasons Mobil is making the EP now rated for 20,000 mile drains is because they tested the [censored] out of it. Extensive lab and field testing. Pennzoil ran the cleanliness claims on regular Mobil 1, not EP. With that said, Pennzoil makes top notch synthetics and I would absolutely use them without hesitation. They are GTL based. Mobil 1 is arguably using an even better base oil blend as they incorporate more PAO (sometimes all PAO) as well as group V AN's.
 

LubricatusObsess

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293
Location
MN
Thanks for sharing experiences. Anybody have observations on oil consumption between M1 EP & PUP? I haven't tried M1 EP as of yet. What really sold me on PUP originally is the harping on cleanliness - deposit preventing, with newer engines using engine oil as a hydraulic oil for Cam Phasers and cylinder cutouts, cleanliness becomes more important beyond sticky piston rings.
 
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35,631
Location
NY
I found over the years in two vehicles less oil use with Mobil 1 than PUP. Having said that the oil use wasn't much, about half a quart in 5K miles with PUP, and no use with Mobil 1.
 
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34,153
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Southern NJ
Originally Posted by LubricatusObsess
Thanks for sharing experiences. Anybody have observations on oil consumption between M1 EP & PUP? I haven't tried M1 EP as of yet. What really sold me on PUP originally is the harping on cleanliness - deposit preventing, with newer engines using engine oil as a hydraulic oil for Cam Phasers and cylinder cutouts, cleanliness becomes more important beyond sticky piston rings.
The cleanliness claims are impressive. I'd love to know how they achieve that. cool
 

LubricatusObsess

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293
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MN
buster, According to Pennzoil's website the test results are per the standard automotive test Based on Sequence IIIH results . They've since pulled the original advertising showing the visual and measured (by weight) deposit results, but their claim was something like 37% cleaner than Mobil 1 (note: NOT Mobil 1 EP). The picture was impressive - much cleaner around piston ring & groove area. We know high temp deposits are caused by oxidation and breakdown + oxidation. By deduction, I would assume PUP broke down less and was more thermally stable. I think the base test oil was 5W-30 vis. Again, cleanliness is much more important for today's highly stressed little engines than it used to be.
 
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34,153
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Southern NJ
Agree. Keeping the pistons clean is important, especially the ring area. Pennzoil Platinum and Ultra Platinum still maintains the piston cleanliness claims based on Sequence IIIH results, but no longer mentions any of the competition, likely due to formulation changes over time.
 

LubricatusObsess

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293
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MN
Originally Posted by buster
Amsoil doubled the length of the test and claims 40% cleaner than required. https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/ShopRes/products/900px/FF_Signature_Series_40_Percent_Cleaner.jpg
I see this is from Amsoil's latest API SP recipe, in their Signature Series (top of the line PAO / Group IV). I think that's a marketing mistake - engines are morphing into dirty pigs again with the advent of GDI. The very last thing you'd want to do is extend OCI's now - OCI is now determined on the oil's additive package's ability to suspend soot and fuel dilution until contamination limits are reached. Posters in BITOG are saying this is 5,000 miles or so. What I'm interested in is optimized oil for the 5,000 mile OCI with GDI engines. Good DD add pack, good thermal stability - not the best that can be achieved. Signature is 3x the price of Group III's & GTL, only to be drained out. No longer worth it.
 
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How will you know the results unless you tear into the motor? Every driver and situation will be different compared to the lab environment where these tests took place.
 
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34,153
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Southern NJ
Originally Posted by PimTac
How will you know the results unless you tear into the motor? Every driver and situation will be different compared to the lab environment where these tests took place.
True. cheers
 
Messages
391
Location
MD
Originally Posted by LubricatusObsess
Thanks for sharing experiences. Anybody have observations on oil consumption between M1 EP & PUP? I haven't tried M1 EP as of yet.
See my reply in 2nd post.
 
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4,632
Location
Decatur AL USA
Originally Posted by LubricatusObsess
Originally Posted by buster
Amsoil doubled the length of the test and claims 40% cleaner than required. https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/ShopRes/products/900px/FF_Signature_Series_40_Percent_Cleaner.jpg
I see this is from Amsoil's latest API SP recipe, in their Signature Series (top of the line PAO / Group IV). I think that's a marketing mistake - engines are morphing into dirty pigs again with the advent of GDI. The very last thing you'd want to do is extend OCI's now - OCI is now determined on the oil's additive package's ability to suspend soot and fuel dilution until contamination limits are reached. Posters in BITOG are saying this is 5,000 miles or so. What I'm interested in is optimized oil for the 5,000 mile OCI with GDI engines. Good DD add pack, good thermal stability - not the best that can be achieved. Signature is 3x the price of Group III's & GTL, only to be drained out. No longer worth it.
If we can suspend soot for 60,000 mi in a large diesel why would we only be able to accomplish it for 6,000 mi in a gasoline engine? Adjusting for sump volume and mpg that would be the equivalent of 30,000 mi in a Ford 5.0 GDI.
 
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13,228
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1/2 hr N.E. of Detroit
Originally Posted by LubricatusObsess
Thanks for sharing experiences. Anybody have observations on oil consumption between M1 EP & PUP? I haven't tried M1 EP as of yet. What really sold me on PUP originally is the harping on cleanliness - deposit preventing, with newer engines using engine oil as a hydraulic oil for Cam Phasers and cylinder cutouts, cleanliness becomes more important beyond sticky piston rings.
I share the same experiences / opinions. Another brand I share equal billing with M1ep and PUP is Valvoline Adv./ ME. If I had to save a few dollars - or wanted a big boost of Moly, I'd pick Rotella Gas & Truck or Quaker State. If anyone wants to fill my Christmas tree Stocking, five quarts of Schaeffer 9000 5w30 would make it a Christmas to remember.
 
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4,632
Location
Decatur AL USA
Originally Posted by Triple_Se7en
Originally Posted by LubricatusObsess
Thanks for sharing experiences. Anybody have observations on oil consumption between M1 EP & PUP? I haven't tried M1 EP as of yet. What really sold me on PUP originally is the harping on cleanliness - deposit preventing, with newer engines using engine oil as a hydraulic oil for Cam Phasers and cylinder cutouts, cleanliness becomes more important beyond sticky piston rings.
I share the same experiences / opinions. Another brand I share equal billing with M1ep and PUP is Valvoline Adv./ ME. If I had to save a few dollars - or wanted a big boost of Moly, I'd pick Rotella Gas & Truck or Quaker State. If anyone wants to fill my Christmas tree Stocking, five quarts of Schaeffer 9000 5w30 would make it a Christmas to remember.
I have a real soft spot for Bob's Oil but can't seem to make it make sense from an cost / benefits standpoint.
 
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2,533
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
I've run PP in my '08 Sport Trac almost exclusively since I got it new. Tried PUP and the UOA was almost identical but I change every 5k so I'm not pushing either one real hard. These days I alternate between PP and PP HM. 4.0 V6 with 198,000 miles and barely uses any oil.
 

LubricatusObsess

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293
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MN
Yes - surprised me your consumption went up. Did consumption remain higher, or did it come down over time from rings freeing up in piston grooves?
 
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