M1 Properties Table

[cweed]

I have compiled the below table from VOA's posted on here and numbers provided by Mobil on their site. A large portion of this comes from a previous post on M1 oils which included a similar spreadsheet, most of the VOA data is from Blackstone. Anyone care to help me fill in the blanks? missing mostly TBNs for the below oils. Enjoy!

 

[cweed]

Sure thing Dave! It has been updated with the numbers you provided.

 

[Schmoe]

Wow, look at that jump from 0W-40 to 15W-50 for HTHS.

 

[mracer]

Very nice chart! Dumb question time. What is HTHS and what does it tell us about an oil?

 

[cweed]

Thanks, I hope to include more oils to it when I get some time to do the research hehe HT/HS = High Temperature High Shear is a test developed to ensure that oils meet a certain standard in lubricating bearings under high temps and pressures. Basically they take the oil at 302F and shear it at a certain rate per second and measure the viscosity of the oil and that's the number :-) I believe the viscosity of the base stocks and viscosity index improvers will alter this number.

 

[Pablo]

I didn't know the T&SUV oil had so much less B than the D1?? Is that correct???

 

[Ghillie]

Very nice work cweed!!! One question: HT/HS--> The higher # the better?

 

[cweed]

Pablo: That number comes from the VOA found here Ghillie: Thanks! Well, higher is not always better... you have to take the oil viscosity into effect too, higher viscosity oils usually have higher ht/hs. Also oils with lots of viscosity improvers often shear quicker so the value may change quickly.

 

[Schmoe]

But the main thing this helps determine is what the viscosity is <i>at the bearings</i>. A higher HTHS will always give you better wear protection but at a higher viscosity price, which as well all know, is not smiled upon by the CAFE crowd. I think the bear minimum for HTHS is something like 2.5 or 2.3. As mentioned above, the HTHS will decrease as the oil shears down. So you have to keep in mind the VI numbers as the HTHS will decrease as the oil shears which is in a relationship with viscosity. Look at the 0W40, high VI, but pretty good HTHS. Do you think that HTHS will be the same after 4K miles? For something more shear stabile, look at the differences among the X-30 weights. 5W30 has a lower HTHS, but a VI of 167 versus the 10W30 higher HTHS but lower VI at 147. Seems the 10W30 would be more shear/HTHS stabile. But look at the 15W50, really high HTHS and relatively modest VI. Pretty nice, but look at the viscosities at different temperatures. At 40C, it's still pretty thick, even though it shows a pour point of -45. I sure wouldn't want this in my engine up in Canada during the winter without an engine heater.

 

[Vuarra]

quote:

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Schmoe I sure wouldn't want this in my engine up in Canada during the winter without an engine heater.

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Most vehicles sold in the colder parts of Canada already have such things built in. I'm also sure that most BITOG members would change that oil in the autumn to something a bit thinner Vuarra Quid quid latine dictum sit altum videtur. (That which is said in Latin sounds profound.)

 

[haley10]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pablo: I didn't know the T&SUV oil had so much less B than the D1?? Is that correct???

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Cut some cost on the more expensive ester content maybe??

 

[cweed]

Thats along the lines of what I was thinking.... They probably slightly modified their additive package, but kept the base oil the same, makes perfect sense.... Btw, I will be posting another table like the one above with some other oils popular here on BITOG.... such as GC, RL, maybe RP, if you want to see your favorite oil in it just let me know [ May 24, 2004, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: cweed ]

 

[Ghillie]

Another Question: What exactly do these 2 additives do for the oil? 1. Magnesium 2. Zinc

 

[haley10]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ghillie: Another Question: What exactly do these 2 additives do for the oil? 1. Magnesium 2. Zinc

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I am not a chemist, but for a layman's explanation... Magnesium will show mainly in hdeo or extended drain syns. It's used as a dispersant, especially for soot in diesel's. You'll see most gasser oils go for higher Calcium levels and exclude Mag. Zinc and Phosphorus as in (ZDDP) are the main anti-wear agents.

 

[Palut]

Are we sure that this D1 VOA is for the SL/CI-4 version. The only VOA I've seen on this site for it is for the SJ/CH-4 version. That could explain why this D1 VOA looks different than the T&S.

 

[Palut]

Great job on this chart! Mobil's web site lists a TBN of 12 for both Delvac 1 and Truck & SUV.

 

[buster]

HT/HS is an important spec., but remember, it's the total package that makes an oil good. I'm not trying to make any excuses up for M1, but they have a tendency to report lower numbers on their PDS. I've been told this buy a few people(Yes Mobil people). Amsoil tested M1's HT/HS and they got 3.3 for 10w-30. With the variances we see in viscosity from batch to batch, these numbers do vary slightly. However, the bottom line is M1's HT/HS is lower then Amsoil's/RL's in the 30wt class. For the 5qt Jug at Walmart, it's a excellent buy, no doubt. While it's not the greatest oil, I do think it's a very well balanced oil. Moly, lots of Calcium, Boron and strong TBN.

 

[cweed]

I've updated a few items on the chart. Not sure whether the D1 listed is for the SL/CI-4, I did get it from a past post here so I assume it is not the new formulation. I will try to track the new one down and put it in there as well.

 

[Ghillie]

"However, the bottom line is M1's HT/HS is lower then Amsoil's/RL's in the 30wt class." So the lower the Ht/Hs# the better?

 

[cweed]

"Amsoil tested M1's HT/HS and they got 3.3 for 10w-30" Buster, do you mean that Mobil measures its HT/HS lower than it really is? Mobil shows 3.17 and you said Amsoil measured M1 oil and saw 3.3?