M1 P/Zn levels - 0W-20 vs. 5W-20

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I was browsing the ExxonMobil website and came across their guide for Phosphorus and Zinc levels in the Mobil 1 family of oils. It came to my attention that their GM Dexos 1 Gen 2 licensed 0W-20 oils all contain a reduced level of Phosphorus and Zinc compared to their 5W-20 oils, or even the HM versions of 0W-20. Does anyone have any idea why?


P- 650 ppm, Zn-750 ppm

1) M1 AFE 0W-20
2) M1 EP 0W-20
3) M1 T&SUV 0W-20

P- 800 ppm, ZN- 900 ppm

1) M1 HM 0W-20
2) M1 EP HM 0W-20

3) M1 EP 5W-20
4) M1 EP HM 5W-20
5) M1 5W-20
6) M1 HM 5W-20
7) M1 T&SUV 5W-20
 

OVERKILL

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Maybe they are using an organic AW chemistry that reduces the requirements? I recall that being the reason why the AFE 0w-20/0w-30 oils had lower levels.
 
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It look like oil with higher poa /group 4 less zddp then other. My 2 cents
 
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I was about to post a new thread about this and then found this one.

It looks like ZDDP can actually cause more friction: https://www.jstor.org/stable/44729179

Hence the reduced ZDDP in these oils. Remember that the main reason why manufacturers spec 0W- oils is for fuel economy.

I wonder if this negatevily impacts wear and what is used to replace the missing ZDDP?
 
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Hence the reduced ZDDP in these oils. Remember that the main reason why manufacturers spec 0W- oils is for fuel economy.
Which if true, in my mind makes no sense. The only time a 0W rated oil is guaranteed to be thinner than a same-grade oil with a 5W rating is below -35F. Sometimes a 0W rated oil has a higher operating viscosity.
 
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Which if true, in my mind makes no sense. The only time a 0W rated oil is guaranteed to be thinner than a same-grade oil with a 5W rating is below -35F. Sometimes a 0W rated oil has a higher operating viscosity.
🤷‍♂️ I don't know, I'm not a specialist or authority on the matter, lol. I was just considering M1 AFE 0W-30 for personal use and was trying to find a logical explenation as to why P and Zn levels are so low. Then again, PP and PUP also have super low levels of P and Zn. I have no idea how Castrol does here. If ZDDP indeed increases friction or heat, or both, I wonder how much we stand to gain in fuel economy versus wear. On the flipside, if friction and heat are lowered, then wear should also be lower. So I don't know, I'm going in circles here. Mobil 1 must definitively know the answer to this one.
 
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If you guys can provide some examples of organic anti wear additives, I'd like to read up some more on the subject.
 
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Thanks a lot. This is some good reading: https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/31107/oil-lubricant-additives

So Boron, Molybdenum, and Tungsten based compounds are all anti-wear and extreme pressure additives. Tinanium Oxide (TiO2) is a bit different, but not a friction modifier. I have a small turbo 2.5L engine. Between M1 0W-40, 5W-40, and Castrol 0W-40, 5W-40, what should I choose? I have a mild understanding of the M1 additive system, very rudimentary understanding. I can't tell anything about Castrol, that one is like a black box. Their 5W-40 seems like it has nothing in it if you just go by the VOA. Pennzoil also seems to favor Boron compounds along with Molybdenum. The question is: is Castrol any good, or should I cast it aside and focus on M1/Pennzoil?
 
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Thanks a lot. This is some good reading: https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/31107/oil-lubricant-additives

So Boron, Molybdenum, and Tungsten based compounds are all anti-wear and extreme pressure additives. Tinanium Oxide (TiO2) is a bit different, but not a friction modifier. I have a small turbo 2.5L engine. Between M1 0W-40, 5W-40, and Castrol 0W-40, 5W-40, what should I choose? I have a mild understanding of the M1 additive system, very rudimentary understanding. I can't tell anything about Castrol, that one is like a black box. Their 5W-40 seems like it has nothing in it if you just go by the VOA. Pennzoil also seems to favor Boron compounds along with Molybdenum. The question is: is Castrol any good, or should I cast it aside and focus on M1/Pennzoil?
Considering your level of understanding why are you trying to differentiate between black-box chemistry in various brands? The Castrol product (like the rest) carry approvals, standards and licenses that demonstrate compliance with real-world performance standards. Some of those approvals are more difficult to obtain than others, if you have an application that is demanding in terms of oxidative stability or mechanical shear resistance then pick an oil that carries an approval that has demonstrated capability in that area.
 
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Considering your level of understanding why are you trying to differentiate between black-box chemistry in various brands? The Castrol product (like the rest) carry approvals, standards and licenses that demonstrate compliance with real-world performance standards. Some of those approvals are more difficult to obtain than others, if you have an application that is demanding in terms of oxidative stability or mechanical shear resistance then pick an oil that carries an approval that has demonstrated capability in that area.
It's mainly just curiosity. I doubt I'm the only one here having fun trying something different while staying safe of course - hence using oils with several approvals. On the small side of my opinion and curiousity, I don't think we would have several brands competing with each other if each one of them didn't think that they can make a better product than the other one.
 
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It's mainly just curiosity. I doubt I'm the only one here having fun trying something different while staying safe of course - hence using oils with several approvals. On the small side of my opinion and curiousity, I don't think we would have several brands competing with each other if each one of them didn't think that they can make a better product than the other one.
I don't understand the safe comment but one product being "better" than the other is just another variant of the typical "which oil is best" question. A $30 spectrographic analysis or Internet chatter about "a slug of moly", a "dose of boron" or a "stout" PDS (or worse SDS) isn't going to be the vehicle to tell you anyway.
 
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I don't understand the safe comment but one product being "better" than the other is just another variant of the typical "which oil is best" question. A $30 spectrographic analysis or Internet chatter about "a slug of moly", a "dose of boron" or a "stout" PDS (or worse SDS) isn't going to be the vehicle to tell you anyway.
The "safe" comment was in reference to trying out API certified oils that also carry stringent OEM approvals. I wouldn't put anything in my vehicles that makes claims without any approvals and certifications. That's what my comment was in reference to.

I agree with your comment about the age old question of which oil is best. For me it was just mainly curiosity, and figuring out what makes it work. Isn't figuring things out part of the fun? Otherwise lubrication would be boring. That's all.
 
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