M1 HM 5W30, 4.5k mi, 06 Infiniti M45

[himemsys]

Just prior to adding this oil, I did a 30 mile rinse cycle with some leftover oils. I drained the old oil, added a frankenbrew of leftover jugs, took it on a 30 mile highway drive, then dumped it and added the M1 HM that's in this report. Seems like it might've helped drop the aluminum, iron and copper levels as drastically as they did, but the lead has me a bit puzzled. Any ideas? Particle streak or legit bearing issue? I guess we wait for the next report to see if it's an anomaly or a trend.

Previous oils from left to right: Castrol Edge 0W40, M1 0W40, ST FS 5W30.

The 1qt of make up oil this time around was M1 HM 10W40. Because of that, I expected the viscosity to be higher, but the 10.41 KV100 looks like straight 5W30.

 

[GSCJR]

The 1qt of make up oil this time around was M1 HM 10W40. Because of that, I expected the viscosity to be higher, but the 10.41 KV100 looks like straight 5W30.

Thanks to BITOG, amongst many other things, I learned that one quart is not enough to raise the vicscosity, but you know that now, thanks to the UOA.

 

[Hall]

but the lead has me a bit puzzled

You use anything like Techron fuel additive / cleaner or any type of fuel system/injector cleaners ?

 

[himemsys]

You use anything like Techron fuel additive / cleaner or any type of fuel system/injector cleaners ?

It gets a bottle of Techron every oil change.

 

[Hall]

It gets a bottle of Techron every oil change.

That could be where the iron is coming from, as I recall.

 

[himemsys]

That could be where the iron is coming from, as I recall.

Possibly. But then I’d think it’d be consistent in all the UOAs.

 

[Donatello]

If I were you, I'd go back to the 0w40 Mobil Euro. These engines are similar to the BMW S65 V8, in the fact that the bearing clearances are very tight. This leads to increased bearing wear and if bad enough, rod knock. Whatever is in the last oil you used, isn't good enough for these engines apparently.

 

[himemsys]

If I were you, I'd go back to the 0w40 Mobil Euro. These engines are similar to the BMW S65 V8, in the fact that the bearing clearances are very tight. This leads to increased bearing wear and if bad enough, rod knock. Whatever is in the last oil you used, isn't good enough for these engines apparently.

I assume you are saying that because of the increased lead. I've got another sump of M1 HM 5W30 in there now and will do another UOA. If I see high lead for two UOAs in a row, then I may consider that. But look at all the other wear metals:

Al is 0.88ppm per 1000 miles, which is the lowest this car got in 4 UOAs. Previous best was 1.38
Ch is 0.22ppm per 1000 miles, almost tied for lowest this car got in 4 UOAs
Fe is 1.54ppm per 1000 miles. Previous best was 3.59ppm/1000mi, more than double improvement
Cu is 0.44ppm/1000mi, again more than double improvement over previous best of 0.92

The concern with M1 and Edge 0W40 is this car has a lot of blow by and I don't want to harm the cats with the high SAPS oils.

I'm actually considering Pennzoil Euro L 5W30 for the next OCI. Great approvals, much lower in the SAPS dept, very thick for a 5W30 at 12.5 cSt, and dirt cheap at $26/5qt on the shelf at Walmart.

 

[OVERKILL]

I assume you are saying that because of the increased lead. I've got another sump of M1 HM 5W30 in there now and will do another UOA. If I see high lead for two UOAs in a row, then I may consider that. But look at all the other wear metals:

Al is 0.88ppm per 1000 miles, which is the lowest this car got in 4 UOAs. Previous best was 1.38
Ch is 0.22ppm per 1000 miles, almost tied for lowest this car got in 4 UOAs
Fe is 1.54ppm per 1000 miles. Previous best was 3.59ppm/1000mi, more than double improvement
Cu is 0.44ppm/1000mi, again more than double improvement over previous best of 0.92

The concern with M1 and Edge 0W40 is this car has a lot of blow by and I don't want to harm the cats with the high SAPS oils.

I'm actually considering Pennzoil Euro L 5W30 for the next OCI. Great approvals, much lower in the SAPS dept, very thick for a 5W30 at 12.5 cSt, and dirt cheap at $26/5qt on the shelf at Walmart.

One has to consider what the real difference is between 700ppm and 900ppm of phosphorous as it applies to the life of a catalyst.

Also, the two 0W-40's have some ester content because of the PAO in them, so I wouldn't be surprised to see some of the iron from chelation.

The lead seems to have gone up both times you ran a 5W-30. The copper seemed to also go up with the ST 5W-30, so I'm wondering if that's a particle streak that is now trending back down?

 

[himemsys]

One has to consider what the real difference is between 700ppm and 900ppm of phosphorous as it applies to the life of a catalyst.

Also, the two 0W-40's have some ester content because of the PAO in them, so I wouldn't be surprised to see some of the iron from chelation.

The lead seems to have gone up both times you ran a 5W-30. The copper seemed to also go up with the ST 5W-30, so I'm wondering if that's a particle streak that is now trending back down?

The ST 5W30 is what the Walmart sticker and Carfax says was in there when we bought the vehicle. I can't vouch because I didn't do it myself. And knowing the car consumes 1qt per ~1800 miles from blowby, I have no way of knowing what oil was used to top off before we bought the car. But yeah, I wondered about a particle streak and wasn't too concerned because the lead went back down before suddenly coming back up.

The current plan is to change the M1 HM 5W30 in late October, do a UOA, and replace with Pennzoil Euro L.

I have to say I'm pretty impressed with the drop in iron and copper in the last UOA. Those are pretty drastic drops.

 

[OVERKILL]

The ST 5W30 is what the Walmart sticker and Carfax says was in there when we bought the vehicle. I can't vouch because I didn't do it myself. And knowing the car consumes 1qt per ~1800 miles from blowby, I have no way of knowing what oil was used to top off before we bought the car. But yeah, I wondered about a particle streak and wasn't too concerned because the lead went back down before suddenly coming back up.

The current plan is to change the M1 HM 5W30 in late October, do a UOA, and replace with Pennzoil Euro L.

I have to say I'm pretty impressed with the drop in iron and copper in the last UOA. Those are pretty drastic drops.

Well, will be interesting to see what happens with the lead. I'll be watching with interest, lol.

 

[Donatello]

I assume you are saying that because of the increased lead. I've got another sump of M1 HM 5W30 in there now and will do another UOA. If I see high lead for two UOAs in a row, then I may consider that. But look at all the other wear metals:

Al is 0.88ppm per 1000 miles, which is the lowest this car got in 4 UOAs. Previous best was 1.38
Ch is 0.22ppm per 1000 miles, almost tied for lowest this car got in 4 UOAs
Fe is 1.54ppm per 1000 miles. Previous best was 3.59ppm/1000mi, more than double improvement
Cu is 0.44ppm/1000mi, again more than double improvement over previous best of 0.92

The concern with M1 and Edge 0W40 is this car has a lot of blow by and I don't want to harm the cats with the high SAPS oils.

I'm actually considering Pennzoil Euro L 5W30 for the next OCI. Great approvals, much lower in the SAPS dept, very thick for a 5W30 at 12.5 cSt, and dirt cheap at $26/5qt on the shelf at Walmart.

Those are great improvements, however I've seen many of these engines give up the ghost due to rod bearing issues. That's the main one I'd be watching out for. I'm going to do an oil analysis myself on my 07 M45. It currently has a fill of 5w40 Castrol Euro. I saw how low your lead went on the Mobil 0w40, so I want to go with that next. My cats had to be replaced around 80K on this car, so I'll just ignore the high SAPS potential issue. At least the car would be running!

Also I tend to believe these engines like 40 weight oils more. But it seems many get along fine with 5w-30 as well. On the 03-04 M45, Nissan spec'd the oil weights of 10w30, 10w40, and 5w-30. Our cars are only 5w30 though. Wonder what changed.

 

[Donatello]

Well, will be interesting to see what happens with the lead. I'll be watching with interest, lol.

Same here, the lead is the scary one to me.

 

[himemsys]

Those are great improvements, however I've seen many of these engines give up the ghost due to rod bearing issues. That's the main one I'd be watching out for. I'm going to do any oil analysis myself on my 07 M45. It currently has a fill of 5w40 Castrol Euro. I saw how low your lead went on the Mobil 0w40, so I want to go with that next. My cats had to be replaced around 80K on this car, so I'll just ignore the high SAPS potential issue. At least the car would be running!

Also I tend to believe these engines like 40 weight oils more. But it seems many get along find with 5w-30 as well. On the 03-04 M45, Nissan spec'd the oil weights of 10w30, 10w40, and 5w-30. Our cars are only 5w30 though. Wonder what changed.

Looking forward to seeing your analysis.

My manual does say:
SAE 5W-30 viscosity oil is preferred for all
temperatures. SAE 10W-30, 10W-40 vis-
cosity oil may be used if the outside
temperature is above 0°F (−18°C)

How high should lead get before there is real concern? Universal average for this car is 5ppm per 4100 miles, or 1.22ppm/1000mi. This most recent analysis (with lead at 10) comes out to 2.20ppm/1000mi.

Keep Pennzoil Euro L in mind. 12.5 cSt and MB229.51 approval. It's nearly the same viscosity as the two 0W40s in the conversation. I'm trying it for the first time at the next oil change in about 6 weeks.

 

[himemsys]

Well, will be interesting to see what happens with the lead. I'll be watching with interest, lol.

Do you think the lead would spike if I waited too long to top off the oil? I was letting it get all the way to the low mark before topping off. This OCI, I'm topping off when it gets about 25% above the low mark. There's almost 2 qts difference between full and the low mark.

 

[OVERKILL]

Do you think the lead would spike if I waited too long to top off the oil? I was letting it get all the way to the low mark before topping off. This OCI, I'm topping off when it gets about 25% above the low mark. There's almost 2 qts difference between full and the low mark.

Shouldn't, but I'm surprised to hear that it's almost 2 quarts, it's normally setup for there to be a ~1qt/1L difference between them.

 

[himemsys]

Shouldn't, but I'm surprised to hear that it's almost 2 quarts, it's normally setup for there to be a ~1qt/1L difference between them.

I was too. It takes ~4.5qts to get to the low mark, and ~6.5qts to get to the full mark. I did some experimenting on one of the oil changes. Normally, I fill it with 6qts and that takes it ~20% below the full mark. In about 1800 miles, the level drops to ~25% above the low mark. Top off with 1qt and it's again ~20% below the full mark.

 

[Plawan]

Probably not gonna win a popularity contest here saying this but I would try doing an engine flush followed by a fresh fill of Xw40.
Could be a particle stuck in a bearing it seems.

 

[KEVINK0000]

FWIW, I've seen a jump in bearing metal like this when I replaced an alternator and tightened the belt too much, which is an unfortunate habit of mine. The metal went away from the report intervals after I figured out my problem. So, I believe in your case, it could be malignant, or not, but it is there. Something changed. Particle streak, sure. But I would be looking around a bit more as to cause. I personally don't like the question, "How high should XXXX get before I get concerned?". Some guys chase their tails on here, yes, and need hand-holding, (not pointing that at you.) All I can offer is my opinion-if this was my engine, I would think about what else (besides oil and lead) has changed in this OI...

 

[Brons2]

Assuming these engines use tri-metal bearings, I'd go back to whatever produced the lower lead numbers.

The other thing is, seeing that this is a Nissan V8, they like thicker oil to begin with. A lot of people have had good results with these and the VQ motors on Xw40. I owned a Titan at one time and I can confirm it got better wear numbers on 0w40. I bought my Titan new and it never consumed any oil that I noticed, so as far as the consumption goes, don't know that a thicker oil would help if the rings are worn or you're putting oil down the valve guides.