M1 EP 5w30 - 4098mi/7mos - 2006 Corvette LS2

[VeganJoy]

Followup to previous post here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...nown-oil-mileage-or-type-first-change.355879/

TL;DR: purchased early last year with 110k miles, now nearing 117k. Engine is stock internals with CAI and long tube headers w/ tune to match. Last change was unknown oil w/ unknown mileage out for M1 EP 5w30, and a new UPF46R filter.

First oil change where I actually know what went in last time. Did it a bit early since I had downtime over Christmas break.



Last morning before I did the change, I had to start the car in near 0F temps cause of the crazy weather, and idled for several minutes while I pumped up the tires. Not sure if that might have contributed to some piston ring wear.

And yeah, not sure how they don't have a baseline reference for M1. Is there a VOA from here that I could send in or something? Or do they just want my money for another analysis?

Other than that, not sure where to go from here. Compression and codes should be easy enough to check myself but I don't really have the space to do much else. Should I just take it in to a shop for a closer look? Not usually a fan of dealers but Gwatney Chevrolet is somewhat nearby with good Corvette-specific facilities.

Thanks for any help/insight you can provide!

 

[CharBaby]

Here is a more recent VOA baseline on PQIA website from October 6th 2020
mobil-1-extended-performance-high-mileage-5w-30-advanced-full-synthetic-motor-oil

 

[mattd]

Looks like you have some abrasive induced wear going on (silicon levels). I’d check your intake for leaks carefully as everything suggests piston/ring/cylinder wear.

 

[himemsys]

That oil is in my VOA Database:

VOA Database

I started this awhile back here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/collection-of-20-weight-api-sp-voas.342292/ and here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/collection-of-xw-30-api-sp-voas.343019/ My time no longer allows me to keep it updated the way I'd like. Plus, people were...

bobistheoilguy.com

I would not be concerned with your TBN. It is plenty high and the oil had much more life left. The high metals are more concerning. Are you experiencing any symptoms? Check engine light, unusual sounds, affected driveability, etc? I wouldn't rush any mechanical work just based on a UOA. Definitely look into it, but don't rush into anything without proper research.

You might try a couple of really short oil runs to clear all old oil out. Then try a normal oil change interval and retest. I have done something similar, where I just ran some extra oil that would never be used for like 50 miles, then dumped it and added the oil I wanted to use. I found in my before-and-after UOAs that the wear metals dropped significantly over similar mileage. Not that I'm saving the engine from failure or anything. The UOA just doesn't have as much really old leftover oil that the previous owner may have left in way too long.

edit: here is one example of what happened after a very short OCI (50 miles). I call it a "rinse cycle". Just prior the most recent oil change on this UOA, I put some combination of leftover (new) oils in the CRV, ran it 50 miles, drained it, then added the oil from this sample. By the previous oil sample, my metals were at Universal Averages for this engine, but on the newest sample, Iron dropped a ton. Aluminum and Copper also dropped a little.

Here is a 2nd example. Just prior to the 7/17/22 oil sample, I drained the oil from 3/26/22, added new oil from partial jugs (leftovers), ran it 50 miles, drained, then added the oil from the 7/17/22 sample. You can see that that sample and the next sample show signficant drops in Iron, with smaller drops in Aluminum and Copper. Lead is doing its own thing in this car. Still trying to figure that one out. LOL.

 

[Cujet]

Thanks for posting this. With the mods, you are a great candidate for a more robust oil. The additive package in that oil is quite modest, and is configured to prevent catalyst poisoning and prevent LSPI on direct injection engines. It would be ideal for a high performance Japanese engine, but might fall a bit short in your application. Even so, I think your air filter need attention. Slightly more viscosity might be in order.

I'm currently considering what oil I want to use in my modified 475HP supercharged 3L DI Jaguar engine. The OEM requirement for 0W-20 is out the window.

 

[Propflux01]

Followup to previous post here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...nown-oil-mileage-or-type-first-change.355879/

TL;DR: purchased early last year with 110k miles, now nearing 117k. Engine is stock internals with CAI and long tube headers w/ tune to match. Last change was unknown oil w/ unknown mileage out for M1 EP 5w30, and a new UPF46R filter.

First oil change where I actually know what went in last time. Did it a bit early since I had downtime over Christmas break.

View attachment 134348View attachment 134349

Last morning before I did the change, I had to start the car in near 0F temps cause of the crazy weather, and idled for several minutes while I pumped up the tires. Not sure if that might have contributed to some piston ring wear.

And yeah, not sure how they don't have a baseline reference for M1. Is there a VOA from here that I could send in or something? Or do they just want my money for another analysis?

Other than that, not sure where to go from here. Compression and codes should be easy enough to check myself but I don't really have the space to do much else. Should I just take it in to a shop for a closer look? Not usually a fan of dealers but Gwatney Chevrolet is somewhat nearby with good Corvette-specific facilities.

Thanks for any help/insight you can provide!

If they sample oil, they should already know VOA 's for many oils. Maybe try a different analysis company. But as it stands, looks like your starting to lose a cylinder or something with the particular metals. You can do a leakdown, or have Gwatney do it, that could narrow an issue.

 

[VeganJoy]

I would not be concerned with your TBN. It is plenty high and the oil had much more life left. The high metals are more concerning. Are you experiencing any symptoms? Check engine light, unusual sounds, affected driveability, etc? I wouldn't rush any mechanical work just based on a UOA. Definitely look into it, but don't rush into anything without proper research.

Runs fine, no CEL, no weird noises aside from what I suspect is an exhaust rattle very occasionally and the creakiness that’s well-associated with GM build quality lol.

Thanks for posting this. With the mods, you are a great candidate for a more robust oil. The additive package in that oil is quite modest, and is configured to prevent catalyst poisoning and prevent LSPI on direct injection engines. It would be ideal for a high performance Japanese engine, but might fall a bit short in your application. Even so, I think your air filter need attention. Slightly more viscosity might be in order.

I'm currently considering what oil I want to use in my modified 475HP supercharged 3L DI Jaguar engine. The OEM requirement for 0W-20 is out the window.

It’s hardly modified, mostly just the headers to make 30 extra hp. Oil temp is usually 200-210F, 230 in spirited driving, all of which afaik is perfect operating temp for this oil in stock LSs. 20w50 is recommended for track use iirc and the later C7s were supposed to switch to 0w40 for all applications, dunno if that would apply to LSs. The intake is a weird Vararam setup for which the filter may be old, worth checking out so thanks.

 

[FZ1]

Looks like you have some abrasive induced wear going on (silicon levels). I’d check your intake for leaks carefully as everything suggests piston/ring/cylinder wear.

This^^^^^^^^^^^. Clean and vac the air box, new A/filter, then, try a slightly higher vis oil after you clean the air box. .02

 

[OVERKILL]

The silicon, aluminum and chromium would definitely have me checking the air intake tract, this looks like dirt ingestion.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Lots of wear metals going on there.

 

[Cujet]

There are a number of folks who like 5W-40 oils in older LS engines. Unfortunately, the additive packages of nearly all modern oils is suffering including the previously stout 5W-40's. While there are all sorts of claims of the "incredible" performance of modern oils, the fact remains, a relatively low viscosity oil, deficient on anti wear additives, with a relatively low HTHS, running at 230°F may not be a recipe for "the ultimate in protection". It probably is a good choice for maximum output.

If you don't want to step up in viscosity, or manage oil temperatures carefully, a high end, robust boutique oil is a good choice.

I'm not concerned by the Fe numbers in your engine. It's a pushrod engine, and such numbers are expected. I don't think you have a disaster on your hands. I do think I'd choose a more robust oil.

In the road racing world, we can run 0w-20 oils successfully in high output engines. But oil temps are perfectly managed and 180 is not unusual to see. It is up to the racer to determine whether the slightly increased overall output is worth the risk.

 

[VeganJoy]

There are a number of folks who like 5W-40 oils in older LS engines. Unfortunately, the additive packages of nearly all modern oils is suffering including the previously stout 5W-40's. While there are all sorts of claims of the "incredible" performance of modern oils, the fact remains, a relatively low viscosity oil, deficient on anti wear additives, with a relatively low HTHS, running at 230°F may not be a recipe for "the ultimate in protection". It probably is a good choice for maximum output.

If you don't want to step up in viscosity, or manage oil temperatures carefully, a high end, robust boutique oil is a good choice.

I'm not concerned by the Fe numbers in your engine. It's a pushrod engine, and such numbers are expected. I don't think you have a disaster on your hands. I do think I'd choose a more robust oil.

In the road racing world, we can run 0w-20 oils successfully in high output engines. But oil temps are perfectly managed and 180 is not unusual to see. It is up to the racer to determine whether the slightly increased overall output is worth the risk.

99% of the time it's under 210, usually under 200. just very occasionally will hit 220-230 and comes right back down when i stop hooning lol.

what other oils should i try? having an oil change be 30-40 bucks all in is pretty nice, so i'd prefer not to need an oil that's 2-3x the cost. was under the impression that M1 is decent enough for most street applications anyways

 

[himemsys]

what other oils should i try?

One you might consider is Pennzoil Euro L 5W30. Strict Euro approvals, high viscosity 30 grade (~12 cSt) with an everyday price of $26.50 for a 5qt jug at WM. VOA: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/pp-euro-l-5w30-voa.361111/

 

[Cujet]

what other oils should i try? having an oil change be 30-40 bucks all in is pretty nice, so i'd prefer not to need an oil that's 2-3x the cost. was under the impression that M1 is decent enough for most street applications anyways

Unfortunately, nearly all commonly available oils are less robust than in the past. A step up in viscosity is a first step, as viscosity provides the bulk of the protection. Among typical 5W-30 oils, I don't think you'll find anything more robust than M1.

Consider the HM oils, or even Delvac 1/TDT 5W-40. However, even those are not what they used to be.

I'm currently using M1, 10W-40HM in my older Jaguar X-Type. These engines are known for rod bearing failures, generally in the mid 100K range. I'm at 225K+ miles with great results. Previously I used 5W-40 TDT.

 

[OVERKILL]

Unfortunately, nearly all commonly available oils are less robust than in the past. A step up in viscosity is a first step, as viscosity provides the bulk of the protection. Among typical 5W-30 oils, I don't think you'll find anything more robust than M1.

Consider the HM oils, or even Delvac 1/TDT 5W-40. However, even those are not what they used to be.

I'm currently using M1, 10W-40HM in my older Jaguar X-Type. These engines are known for rod bearing failures, generally in the mid 100K range. I'm at 225K+ miles with great results. Previously I used 5W-40 TDT.

Anything full SAPS hasn't lost its robustness, M1 0W-40 and Castrol 0W-40 both come to mind.

 

[edyvw]

I must ask, but what is purpose of CAI, and what is wrong with Chevrolet CAI?
As @OVERKILL indicated, I would move to M1 0W40, Castrol 0W40 or 0W30.

 

[VeganJoy]

Unfortunately, nearly all commonly available oils are less robust than in the past. A step up in viscosity is a first step, as viscosity provides the bulk of the protection. Among typical 5W-30 oils, I don't think you'll find anything more robust than M1.

Consider the HM oils, or even Delvac 1/TDT 5W-40. However, even those are not what they used to be.

I'm currently using M1, 10W-40HM in my older Jaguar X-Type. These engines are known for rod bearing failures, generally in the mid 100K range. I'm at 225K+ miles with great results. Previously I used 5W-40 TDT.

is there much difference between normal M1 and the high mileage variant?

Anything full SAPS hasn't lost its robustness, M1 0W-40 and Castrol 0W-40 both come to mind.

which M1 0w40? i know there's the dexos 2 spec for C7/C8s (which i've seen rated poorly here), euro spec, etc

I must ask, but what is purpose of CAI, and what is wrong with Chevrolet CAI?
As @OVERKILL indicated, I would move to M1 0W40, Castrol 0W40 or 0W30.

cold air intake, mine is an aftermarket one compared to the stock airbox and it's possible the filter is done for (or some other leak is present)

 

[DuckRyder]

I would at the very least replace the air filter and carefully check the assembly for air leaks. Were it my car i would put all the factory intake system back in and use new high quality paper filters.

Mobil1 0/40FS. (Walmart "European Car")

Cross check OAI against a competitor - they seem to flag things more aggressively than others IME.

 

[Cujet]

The HM versions

is there much difference between normal M1 and the high mileage variant?


which M1 0w40? i know there's the dexos 2 spec for C7/C8s (which i've seen rated poorly here), euro spec, etc


cold air intake, mine is an aftermarket one compared to the stock airbox and it's possible the filter is done for (or some other leak is present)

The HM version is available in 10W-40, so it's a higher viscosity than the others. As to whether a 5W-30 HM is better than plain 5W-30, I'd say there is not much difference.

The M1 5W-40 and 0-40 Euro oils still have robust additive packages. The M1 0W-40 ESP (emissions system protection) does not.

Here is an interesting thread.

VOA Database

I started this awhile back here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/collection-of-20-weight-api-sp-voas.342292/ and here: https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/collection-of-xw-30-api-sp-voas.343019/ My time no longer allows me to keep it updated the way I'd like. Plus, people were...

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[edyvw]

is there much difference between normal M1 and the high mileage variant?


which M1 0w40? i know there's the dexos 2 spec for C7/C8s (which i've seen rated poorly here), euro spec, etc


cold air intake, mine is an aftermarket one compared to the stock airbox and it's possible the filter is done for (or some other leak is present)

I know your CAI is aftermarket. But, original intake is also CAI. I am afraid you are having snake oil installed that is creating issues. Unless original has some kind of carbon filter restriction like my BMW had, which is unique for the US market, and you reverted to original set up (like I did, what BMW uses in Europe), you are not gaining anything, on contrary…
As for oils, Mobil1 0W40 FS is what @OVERKILL had in mind. One designed for European vehicles.