I am looking for the EP 10w-40 in SF Bay Area too. So far I have seen nothing in Kragen or Walmart...
M1 EP 10w40, Euro 0w40, T&S 5w40...which?
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M1 TSUV 5W40!!! 5W40 is the most prefered comprimise for oil in Europe and Asia!!! It has shown good results in everything it has been run in! It is shear stable and offers a good HTHS with a 5W rateing for colder months! Anything that will prevent valvetrain wear in a commercial diesel is going to prevent valvetrain wear in a light duty passenger car. THe valvetrain loads in a comercial diesel greatly exceed any production cars!!
Soot is an insoluble no matter how you slice so even in a gasser this oil will handle insolubles better then most PCMO's!
Thier is no researchon M1EP 10W40 but I would expect it to hold up well! It is likely a thin 40Wt. but with no data sheet for it and no past experince I would recomend it only on M1's reputation and not on merit.
Soot is an insoluble no matter how you slice so even in a gasser this oil will handle insolubles better then most PCMO's!
Thier is no researchon M1EP 10W40 but I would expect it to hold up well! It is likely a thin 40Wt. but with no data sheet for it and no past experince I would recomend it only on M1's reputation and not on merit.
Which is why Daimler Benz and Porsche Engineers chose M1 0w-40 as their factory fill?
John, I think it's time to check the M1 0w30 oil in your Camry, sounds like it's a quart low.
This oil is designed to "thin" for fuel efficiency, then thicken. Whether the new SM 0w-40 is still a 30K KM oil in Europe, I don't know, but it isn't all that bad. However, Esso's 0w-40 in Canada, where CAFE doesn't seem to be an issue, has a HT/HS of 4.1. This is also because it's thicker.
Yes, a thicker oil, generally speaking, has a higher HTHS value. However, above a certain point, how high does the HTHS value have to be? I think there's a point of diminishing returns involved here, otherwise, the Ford and Honda engines wouldn't be able to survive on the 2.6 HTHS value of their recommended 5w20 oils. Afterall, there's nothing that different in the design of Ford/Honda engines and those of Europe. The biggest difference I see about European cars, are they are subjected to hours on the AutoBahn, AutoStrata, etc.
427Z06, You are checking in a little late in the game!! 5W40 synthetic have been the preffered comprimise in Europe and Asia longer then 5W30 have been prefered choice in the CAFE I mean USA! 0W40 is still wet behind the ears! I prefer not to be given to flights of fancy and each new fad! Once 0W40 has built up the reputation that Delvac-1 has in the industry maybe it might seem creadable. The fact that a major OEM is running with it in a world of ever increaseing fuel ecconomy expectations is only a partial endorsement I stil ember the 20W20 and 5W20 dino oils that GM and Opel ran with for a while.The recomendations that have come before it are just as important to me!
M1 0W40 is a good oil but it is not as good as Delvac-1! It shears on a regular basis. It turns in good numbers but no better then any other oil with an HTHS of 3.5 or higher. I agree with Terry when he calls it a 0W30 mislabled as a 0W40. I often recomend it as well to people that have a fear of a 40Wt. oil boging down their little engine.
Until we get a dismal report back from either Delvac-1 or TSUV 5W40 I am going to continue to recomened them over M1 0W40. It is especaily significant when you look at the availability. 5W40 TSUV is availble at walmart for $4.88 a quart or $19 for a 5 quart jug! M1 0W40 is not available at Walmart and can not be had for $19 for a 5 quart jug! Most people have a Walmart nearby!
We even have multiple Delvac-1 and TSUV reports from VW TDI's,Porsches,Comerical diesels,light duty truck diesels,generators,pickup trucks, and cars. The things they all have in common is low wear numbles, low insolubles, soot,shear stable, good flash point, great TBN retension and low consuption rate!
Now on the other hand 0W40 has showed a propencity to be consumed at high rates in vechile that have in the past never had consuption issues and in vechiles that are known to consume. It has shearded in more then one application a number of times. It is only available at parts stores. It cost more then TSUV. It has not done any better in UOA then SUV or Delvac-1.
Even though it is a good oil it is not a great oil and does not offer much over TSUV or Delvac-1. It is not like it is winter anymore so what is a 0W40 going to do for you that a 5W40 can not do?
I would really just like to know what it is about Delvac-1 or TSUV that makes you think it is not better then 0W40! Why do you think it has to be guarded against at all cost? What makes you think that M1 0W40 is better then Delvac-1/TSUV? I am trying to understand the logic behind it. I fail to see were Delvac-1 or TSUV have failed or have any short comeings!
The future should be based on the history that got us their not on a buracratic mandate!
I tried M1R 0W30 now it your turn to try Delvac-1 or TSUV! Ever hear these two saying ( tTo be taken as light hearted jibing) "Put up or shut up!" "Put your money were your mouth is!" I ran M1R 0W30 and did a UOA of it so as not to be small minded! I will also put up a UOA this comeing winter of my M1 0W40/5W40 brew. I bought two quarts of M1 0W40 at Autozone. The following week my Walmart started to carry TSUV 5W40.
[ April 08, 2005, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: JohnBrowning ]
M1 0W40 is a good oil but it is not as good as Delvac-1! It shears on a regular basis. It turns in good numbers but no better then any other oil with an HTHS of 3.5 or higher. I agree with Terry when he calls it a 0W30 mislabled as a 0W40. I often recomend it as well to people that have a fear of a 40Wt. oil boging down their little engine.
Until we get a dismal report back from either Delvac-1 or TSUV 5W40 I am going to continue to recomened them over M1 0W40. It is especaily significant when you look at the availability. 5W40 TSUV is availble at walmart for $4.88 a quart or $19 for a 5 quart jug! M1 0W40 is not available at Walmart and can not be had for $19 for a 5 quart jug! Most people have a Walmart nearby!
We even have multiple Delvac-1 and TSUV reports from VW TDI's,Porsches,Comerical diesels,light duty truck diesels,generators,pickup trucks, and cars. The things they all have in common is low wear numbles, low insolubles, soot,shear stable, good flash point, great TBN retension and low consuption rate!
Now on the other hand 0W40 has showed a propencity to be consumed at high rates in vechile that have in the past never had consuption issues and in vechiles that are known to consume. It has shearded in more then one application a number of times. It is only available at parts stores. It cost more then TSUV. It has not done any better in UOA then SUV or Delvac-1.
Even though it is a good oil it is not a great oil and does not offer much over TSUV or Delvac-1. It is not like it is winter anymore so what is a 0W40 going to do for you that a 5W40 can not do?
I would really just like to know what it is about Delvac-1 or TSUV that makes you think it is not better then 0W40! Why do you think it has to be guarded against at all cost? What makes you think that M1 0W40 is better then Delvac-1/TSUV? I am trying to understand the logic behind it. I fail to see were Delvac-1 or TSUV have failed or have any short comeings!
The future should be based on the history that got us their not on a buracratic mandate!
I tried M1R 0W30 now it your turn to try Delvac-1 or TSUV! Ever hear these two saying ( tTo be taken as light hearted jibing) "Put up or shut up!" "Put your money were your mouth is!" I ran M1R 0W30 and did a UOA of it so as not to be small minded! I will also put up a UOA this comeing winter of my M1 0W40/5W40 brew. I bought two quarts of M1 0W40 at Autozone. The following week my Walmart started to carry TSUV 5W40.
[ April 08, 2005, 12:20 AM: Message edited by: JohnBrowning ]
I hope someone is actually reading these links and not just the comment. From the above link:
And in all the above links, in only one case did it shear out of grade, and just barely.
The difference is HDEO vs PCMO.
John, you got me. How about I run the M1 5w40 in my Toyota. Then you and I will be even. I.e., you ran the water like M1 0w30 in your Toyota and I'll run the syrup like 5w40 in my Toyota. Deal?
On a more serious note, go back and read what I posted before. In summary, I recommended that the environment the vehicle would see should influence the decision between the M1 0w40 and the 5w40. Not everyone runs their Audi/VW engine flat out for a couple of hours everyday. If the vehicle in question is doing predominantly under 10 miles/trip at moderate power levels on a daily basis why churn thick oil to no avail? Install some accurate oil temp gauges on your vehicle and be enlightened.
P.S. You know I like kiddin' around with you, right? Thus my usual 0w30 in Camry comments.
On a more serious note, go back and read what I posted before. In summary, I recommended that the environment the vehicle would see should influence the decision between the M1 0w40 and the 5w40. Not everyone runs their Audi/VW engine flat out for a couple of hours everyday. If the vehicle in question is doing predominantly under 10 miles/trip at moderate power levels on a daily basis why churn thick oil to no avail? Install some accurate oil temp gauges on your vehicle and be enlightened.
P.S. You know I like kiddin' around with you, right? Thus my usual 0w30 in Camry comments.
I drove to and from the city with the T&S today and had some insight into the issue. The way I see it, if you do stop-n-go driving or short trips, you want the 0w-40 with the fuel savings and free-revving, esp if that's how your engine is set-up. Now, if you drive long-distance in a low-revver, like OTR trucking...T&S seems like it runs best in the low rpms and nice and steady...on-boost. Say, you drive an old Benz 85mph on the hwy all day, the T&S would be better (the formula offers cleaning benefits and stays in-grade). If you are driving something with high revs, like tuner car on NOZ or have an Asian car that you want to try exotic oil 0w-40 would be the choice. Short trips with lots of throttle input, 0w-40 would be better...IMO. PS I feel like I am driving uphill in my car since T&S, I am NOT getting another fill this summer. I will use in in a "new" beater to de-sludge though.
So it has been a month and I still haven't seen the 10w-40 at either Autozone/Kragen/Walmart yet. Has any human being seen it yet?
I am getting close to my next oil change and I really would like to use the 10w-40. I had 4 bottles of SL 0w-40 left but the car takes 5, and I do not want to mix with SM 0w-40 which is the only one available now.
I am getting close to my next oil change and I really would like to use the 10w-40. I had 4 bottles of SL 0w-40 left but the car takes 5, and I do not want to mix with SM 0w-40 which is the only one available now.
Our local kragen has all M1 synthetic oils (including EP) on sale for $3.99 a quart. Nobody seems to touch it. I went back 2 weeks in a row and bought all 8 quarts of T&SUV 5w40 they had on the shelf each time. I might go back again this week
It was interesting to see 0w40, 5w40 and 10w40 side by side. I counted at least 8 or 9 kind of M1 besides the 5000 and 7500 stuff.
Funny they don't offer a 0w20 15000 mile EP
It was interesting to see 0w40, 5w40 and 10w40 side by side. I counted at least 8 or 9 kind of M1 besides the 5000 and 7500 stuff.
Funny they don't offer a 0w20 15000 mile EP
You mean you've seen the elusive EP 10w40 in the flesh..Where are you at in CA?quote:
Originally posted by jtantare:
Our local kragen has all M1 synthetic oils (including EP) on sale for $3.99 a quart. Nobody seems to touch it. I went back 2 weeks in a row and bought all 8 quarts of T&SUV 5w40 they had on the shelf each time. I might go back again this week
It was interesting to see 0w40, 5w40 and 10w40 side by side. I counted at least 8 or 9 kind of M1 besides the 5000 and 7500 stuff.
Funny they don't offer a 0w20 15000 mile EP
Btw, based from the M1 EP brochure I have in front of me there is no such thing as EP 0w20.
Mobil told me that if the demand isn't their, then they won't stock the 10w-40 EP. Their is a 10w-40 5000 oil, but the 10w-40 EP isn't out yet. Look again.
I have a good feeling this oil won't be easy to find. No one uses a 10w-40 anymore. Plus when you have a 0w-40 on the shelf, whats the point? They should have developed a long drain 5w-20 oil. Would have made more sense IMO.
I have a good feeling this oil won't be easy to find. No one uses a 10w-40 anymore. Plus when you have a 0w-40 on the shelf, whats the point? They should have developed a long drain 5w-20 oil. Would have made more sense IMO.
Hey now! I'm a happy camper using PZ HM 10w-40!
I was just trying to point out that 0w20 is not worty of 15k miles under any circumstance. At least Mobil isn't willing to put its name behind such a pruduct. That why the regular M1 oils are not going to die out
I'll take a picture of the shelf next time I am at the store to prove to you that M1 10w40 was on the shelf along with 0w and 5w.
I'll take a picture of the shelf next time I am at the store to prove to you that M1 10w40 was on the shelf along with 0w and 5w.
Please do. I would love to see some evidence that the 10w40 flavor of this M1 EP product is actually being sold somewhere.quote:
Originally posted by jtantare:
...I'll take a picture of the shelf next time I am at the store to prove to you that M1 10w40 was on the shelf along with 0w and 5w.
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42XXXX(Sorry, I'm bad with numbers...), I don't drive my Audi always for a few hours. Even when I went only a few miles, my valve train was incredibly loud with M1 0W-40 -- so loud that people would ask me what was wrong with the engine. With 5W-40 this is a non-issue, no matter if I've been driving for 15 minutes or 4 hours. This result may of course have meaning only in regard to my engine. Results may vary.
Tooslick: Excellent choice in vehicles. I have an 01 TT QR 225. I myself have been using T&S since I have owned it. When I first bought it, I immediately had the oil changed over. I use the Mahle and Mann filters. I drive it 3 to 4 days out of a week. I cut down due to poor roads in DC area but that is another story. 90 miles round trip a day. Constant 75 to 85 mph on the beltway. Car runs great. No complaints with the oil or anything. M1 T&S is my standard fill for this car. Even the manual says it came from the factory with 5w-40.
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