M1 and sticking lifter?

[BertieBlue]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
As for filters my Dad has been using K&N's for the past 10yrs on this car. The one with the nut on the casing?

Made it easier to change on this application. Anyone with a IS300 will know what I'm talking about.

This noise was not just lifter tick this was horribly loud like something was stuck.

Since the engine flush and refill with PP they went on a trip this week and drove over 1500 miles. No issues as of yet.

If the noise doesn't come back in let's say 10k miles the chances are It was the oil.

No matter though he won't be using M1 again I'm sure. Just how my Dad is. Can't say I blame him either.

Jeff


Had something similar on a VW engine. I used engine flush (

) as i thought something had got gummed up. Never happened again, but the noise was awful at the time. I used [censored] oil at the time IIRC

 

[Trav]

It uses a shim on bucket arrangement as Overkill said.
It may have a dirty filter on the oil feed pipe union bolts for VVT unit causing the VVT to make noise momentarily.
If it happens again pull them and clean them.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Trav
It uses a shim on bucket arrangement as Overkill said.
It may have a dirty filter on the oil feed pipe union bolts for VVT unit causing the VVT to make noise momentarily.
If it happens again pull them and clean them.


Thanks for confirming my assessment Trav

So what this points us to is that there is a certain psychology at work here. This board has been known for specifically speaking with reference to noise complaints and M1, and so that appears to be the leap that was made here. There was noise, ergo, it must be the oil at fault.

The irony of course being that the engine doesn't even use HLA's, so what has been construed as lifter noise simply cannot be.

It does however demonstrate how quick we are to jump to conclusions without the necessary information on hand to be making them. "It sounds like therefore it is". The OP noting that his father will now never use Mobil lubricants again based on this reinforces our irrationality when it comes to these things. Almost religious in nature, that.

 

[10cent]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Trav
It uses a shim on bucket arrangement as Overkill said.
It may have a dirty filter on the oil feed pipe union bolts for VVT unit causing the VVT to make noise momentarily.
If it happens again pull them and clean them.


Thanks for confirming my assessment Trav

So what this points us to is that there is a certain psychology at work here. This board has been known for specifically speaking with reference to noise complaints and M1, and so that appears to be the leap that was made here. There was noise, ergo, it must be the oil at fault.

The irony of course being that the engine doesn't even use HLA's, so what has been construed as lifter noise simply cannot be.

It does however demonstrate how quick we are to jump to conclusions without the necessary information on hand to be making them. "It sounds like therefore it is". The OP noting that his father will now never use Mobil lubricants again based on this reinforces our irrationality when it comes to these things. Almost religious in nature, that.


This perfectly sums up my thoughts on this issue. Well said sir.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Originally Posted By: Trav
It uses a shim on bucket arrangement as Overkill said.
It may have a dirty filter on the oil feed pipe union bolts for VVT unit causing the VVT to make noise momentarily.
If it happens again pull them and clean them.


Thanks for the info. If it happens again will let him know.

Thanks everyone.

Jeff

 

[aquariuscsm]

Was your dad parked on an incline/hill? If I park on a steep incline overnight,I'll get a sec or two of lifter tick on startup,but never get it when I park level,even if my car sits for weeks unstarted.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Trav
It uses a shim on bucket arrangement as Overkill said.
It may have a dirty filter on the oil feed pipe union bolts for VVT unit causing the VVT to make noise momentarily.
If it happens again pull them and clean them.


Thanks for confirming my assessment Trav

So what this points us to is that there is a certain psychology at work here. This board has been known for specifically speaking with reference to noise complaints and M1, and so that appears to be the leap that was made here. There was noise, ergo, it must be the oil at fault.

The irony of course being that the engine doesn't even use HLA's, so what has been construed as lifter noise simply cannot be.

It does however demonstrate how quick we are to jump to conclusions without the necessary information on hand to be making them. "It sounds like therefore it is". The OP noting that his father will now never use Mobil lubricants again based on this reinforces our irrationality when it comes to these things. Almost religious in nature, that.


This shows just how little the public knows about engines.

 

[beadvised]

I blame M1 5w30 on my divorce and the reason our president sucks so bad!

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

1st off the critism isn't appreciated.

2 though we don't know what it was that caused the noise. What we do know is the engine flush eliminated the problem. Therefore in theory it cleaned whatever the M1 did not clean.

I am no 2JZ Wizard but it very well could have been the oil that caused the issue.

Saying it's not is just as bad as me dating it was. It is what it is.

The car was parked in a level garage on a 80F day when this happened. The oil was changed on average every 3k miles since new with M1.

It's my Dads choice to switch oil brands for whatever reason. No matter for what reason.

All I was asking was what you guys thought it could have been. That's it. Not to get critised for something the critising folks don't even know what it was.

All we know is the engine flush cured it. So wherever it goes the M1 goes and had gone for the last 10 yrs.

Anyway for those folks with help on the VVT screen we will look into that. If that is controlled by oil pressure and a mesh screen did get clogged the oil flush cleaned it almost instantly since the noise went away after a couple of seconds with the flush in the engine so this proves to me that the M1 did not Keep the engine adequately cleaned of a screen got blocked. IF that is what it is.

Too many varables. The noise is gone now as is the M1.

It is what it is.

Jeff

 

[buster]

Strange. No clue. Doubt it was the oil though.

The reason you read a bit more about Mobil 1 is simply because it represents 50% of the market alone. lol

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Originally Posted By: buster
Strange. No clue. Doubt it was the oil though.

The reason you read a bit more about Mobil 1 is simply because it represents 50% of the market alone. lol


Funny you can't prove it wasn't the oil just like I can't prove that it was.

Though the evidence I have is more substantial than your opinion.

Jeff

 

[buster]

Most of the top tier synthetics keep engines as clean as they can and all perform relatively similar in most of the more demanding engine tests. More specifically the Seq IIIG, Porsche A40 and HTO-06.

In terms of sludge control, it's never been an issue with any top tier synthetic as far as I'm aware. So your one little case doesn't prove you have more evidence at all. It can't be proven at this point either way.

For every guy that comes on here and blames oil B for his dirty engine, you could find 100k more where it didn't occur with that same brand.

 

[buster]

the noise complaints etc. are from prior versions of Mobil 1 and again, they represent 50-60% of the market, so you're going to hear more noise about it. Reality is, we know Mobil 1 is a top notch product and really always has been. It's really not disputable at all.

 

[tig1]

Jeff,
No need to get defensive. Posters like Trav who makes his living as a mechanic, and is very knowledgeable about all things engines, and Overkill who likewise is up on engines, are offerings realistic reasons why your dad's engine had a tic. Of course the oil isn't the problem, as we know M1 oils keep engines as clean as any oil can. Perhaps a small piece of carbon found it's way into a spot that caused the tic. But the choice of using PP will give the engine it's expected life as well.

 

[fdcg27]

With mechanical lifters, a little debris won't cause any dramatic noise event.
If there's something mechancial going on, it'll probably happen again with PP or anything else.
As everyone else has written, this event had nothing to do with the oil used.
Whether M1 can actually keep engines as clean as any oil can is a matter of opinion, but I'd use M1 secure in the knowledge that it would keep the engine clean.
On the drains the OP refers to, any oil would keep this engine clean, though.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX


Anyway for those folks with help on the VVT screen we will look into that. If that is controlled by oil pressure and a mesh screen did get clogged the oil flush cleaned it almost instantly since the noise went away after a couple of seconds with the flush in the engine so this proves to me that the M1 did not Keep the engine adequately cleaned of a screen got blocked. IF that is what it is.

Too many varables. The noise is gone now as is the M1.

It is what it is.

Jeff


I have no dog in this fight. If the flush made the noise go away in a few seconds, I'd be willing to bet changing the oil would have done the exact same thing. Flushes need more than a few seconds to work. As you said too many variables, I doubt it was the fault of the oil. Two things I do know for certain: 1. We'll never know what the cause was if it doesn't come back. 2. Opinions vary.

 

[buster]

A good high mileage oil may have helped too.

 

[Jeffs2006EvoIX]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Jeff,
No need to get defensive. Posters like Trav who makes his living as a mechanic, and is very knowledgeable about all things engines, and Overkill who likewise is up on engines, are offerings realistic reasons why your dad's engine had a tic. Of course the oil isn't the problem, as we know M1 oils keep engines as clean as any oil can. Perhaps a small piece of carbon found it's way into a spot that caused the tic. But the choice of using PP will give the engine it's expected life as well.

You are right. I apologize Sometimes folks come across the wrong way.

Sorry folks if I offended anyone.

Jeff

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
1st off the critism isn't appreciated.


Jeff: Please note I'm not criticising you, simply the way we tend to jump to conclusions on this board without supporting facts.

Quote:
though we don't know what it was that caused the noise. What we do know is the engine flush eliminated the problem. Therefore in theory it cleaned whatever the M1 did not clean.


Do we? How many times did the engine make the noise? From the OP, it sounds like it made it that one start, you both freaked out, dumped in magic engine in a can and assume that the addition of this product resolved the issue. How do we know this wasn't a one-time event?

Quote:
I am no 2JZ Wizard but it very well could have been the oil that caused the issue.


It could have been a myriad of things, that's my point. We have no idea what caused it. Blaming the oil is no more logical than blaming the filter, the VCT controller parking the cam in the wrong spot....etc. All kinds of potential sources for noise here.

Quote:
Saying it's not is just as bad as me dating it was. It is what it is.


No, admitting we have no idea what caused it is the proper conclusion to draw here.

Quote:
The car was parked in a level garage on a 80F day when this happened. The oil was changed on average every 3k miles since new with M1.


And those two things may have absolutely zero to do with what caused the noise.

Quote:
It's my Dads choice to switch oil brands for whatever reason. No matter for what reason.


It certainly is, and I'd never argue otherwise. But that doesn't make his choice rational.

Quote:
All I was asking was what you guys thought it could have been. That's it. Not to get critised for something the critising folks don't even know what it was.


But you had already drawn a conclusion as to what it was and that part doesn't even exist on the car

Note that I haven't stated that it was a particular something else here. What I've stated is that we have no idea what it is, and anything is just as likely a culprit as the oil. We have no evidence indicating otherwise.

Quote:
All we know is the engine flush cured it. So wherever it goes the M1 goes and had gone for the last 10 yrs.


But we don't know it cured it, based on your OP. Unless the engine made the noise multiple times (which you are welcome to correct me on) then it may have been a one time occurrence.

Quote:
Anyway for those folks with help on the VVT screen we will look into that. If that is controlled by oil pressure and a mesh screen did get clogged the oil flush cleaned it almost instantly since the noise went away after a couple of seconds with the flush in the engine so this proves to me that the M1 did not Keep the engine adequately cleaned of a screen got blocked. IF that is what it is.


Or the filter bypassed, letting particulate loose and causing the issue. See, all kinds of fun ways for this to happen

Carbon happens. If some of it got down past the rings and ended up in the pan, then in the filter and then got bypassed..... It doesn't have to be a deposit that the oil "missed" or "didn't keep under control". There are parts of the engine that the oil cannot keep clean. Intake tract deposit comes loose, goes in the breather, ends up in the pan.... We could guess and guess and guess here.

Quote:
Too many varables. The noise is gone now as is the M1.

It is what it is.

Jeff


It certainly is, and that's my point, there are FAR too many variables to blame any one thing here.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: Jeffs2006EvoIX
No matter though he won't be using M1 again I'm sure. Just how my Dad is. Can't say I blame him either.
IMHO (as you have posted yours) there is far too little factual information and far too much opinion to determine what caused the problem. To think that M1 (or any synthetic) on a 3-4K OCI would cause issues in an engine with carbon, varnish, et. al. is highly likely unless there is a design issue with the engine in which case any oil could have caused the problem. What would have happened if a conventional were to be used? It is a bit far-fetched (again IMHO) to think that M1 is detrimental and somehow PP is a magical elixir.