M1 5w30, 8.000Km., Honda Civic Si. disappointing?

[absolude]

There are actually two UOAs. For the first one I mixed German Castrol 0w30 with Mobil1 and topped off with Mobil 1. Second one M1 only. Honda oil filters. I'm afraid the wear is high and viscosity low. Average wear for this engine is 8 for the iron and 2 for lead. The car is my daily driver and I do roughly 75% city driving; bumper to bumper quite often in the evenings. I drive harder than most but rarely redline, wouldn't say I'm beating on the car. Anything can I do to improve my numbers? What would be the state of my engine considering the high wear? I guess I need your expert advice...

Code:

OIL                  Mobil1 5w30        Mix Mobil1 5W30+GC
KM in CAR             46,500 KM         38.000 Km     
KM on OIL              8.500 Km          8.000 Km  



ALUMINUM                   3                 3       
CHROMIUM                   0                 0
IRON                      18       	    16
COPPER	                   2                 3
LEAD                       7                12
TIN                        2                 0
MOLYBDENUM                89       	    57
NICKEL                     0        	     0
MANGANESE                  1        	     1
SILVER                     0        	     0
TITANIUM                   0        	     0
POTASSIUM                  2        	     0
BORON                     58       	    41
SILICON                   10       	    10
SODIUM                     7        	     8
CALCIUM                 2451     	  2825
MAGNESIUM                 16       	    61
PHOSPHORUS               711      	   761
ZINC                     809      	   895
BARIUM                     0                 0


SUS Viscosity @ 210°F     53.0              56.8
cSt Viscosity @ 100°C      8.19              9.30
Flashpoint in °F         405              350
Fuel %                    <0.5               1.8
Antifreeze %               0.0               0.0
Water %                    0.0               0.0
Insolubles                 0.3               0.3
TBN                        3.9               3.6

 

[chubbs1]

What is disappointing? It is better than your last UOA. That is not "high wear". Change to PP or PU if you dont like this but considering the driving style you explained this is a good UOA on almost any account.

 

[mopar_monkey]

this engine tends to wear cam lobes, so a little extra iron maybe not to far from average on this engine.

 

[absolude]

Thanks for the reply. Happy to hear is not that bad. The comments from the lab said it was higher wear than normal. And I thought it didn't look too good compared to the ones posted here.

 

[ltslimjim]

Try a high-end filter for fun with the same oil, and see where the trending heads. Just a simple change to monitor for any variables? Mostly bumper to bumper, stop 'n go, city driving could simply explain the 'blip' in lead/iron. It isn't bad or worrisome by any means, though. Silicon entry is about 2 ppm/1,000 miles(generally 2-3/1k is acceptable IMO). You could try a thinner 0w-30, Mobil 1 AFE? Canada, so start-up wear in cold weather etc?

 

[absolude]

Cool, I'll try that. I stopped using 0w30 since the car is driven very little over the winter. Probably I was wrong but I thought the 5w30 will offer better protection on start-up. Also I noticed the second sample has thinned out to 5w20 levels... I drive only 10 to 12 thousands Km a year, so it's at least 10 months between oil changes. Could this explain it?

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim

Try a high-end filter for fun with the same oil, and see where the trending heads. Just a simple change to monitor for any variables? Mostly bumper to bumper, stop 'n go, city driving could simply explain the 'blip' in lead/iron. It isn't bad or worrisome by any means, though. Silicon entry is about 2 ppm/1,000 miles(generally 2-3/1k is acceptable IMO). You could try a thinner 0w-30, Mobil 1 AFE? Canada, so start-up wear in cold weather etc?

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: absolude

Cool, I'll try that. I stopped using 0w30 since the car is driven very little over the winter. Probably I was wrong but I thought the 5w30 will offer better protection on start-up. Also I noticed the second sample has thinned out to 5w20 levels... I drive only 10 to 12 thousands Km a year, so it's at least 10 months between oil changes. Could this explain it?

What year model is your Si? It shouldn't require thicker, but I'm curious what the book calls for in your engine. No thicker for where you live anyway, IMO. Thus the suggestion for Mobil 1 0w-30 AFE next time. You say it's not driven much in the winter, so it might not be as big of a deal. It does seem to be shearing, the first sample with mainly GC should have been thicker but it did have some fuel dilution, and this one shows some dilution. So, the OCI is 1 time every 10 months with how much top-off?

 

[absolude]

It's a 2007, K20Z3, so recommended weigh is 5w30. You are right, OCI at 10 to 12 months. In the winter I drive my old Integra and take the new one out a few times when the roads are dry. Right before changing the oil from first sample I was going through FlashPro tuning. The car is stock besides FlashPro. It took a month, maybe two. Can it have anything to do with the fuel dilution? I added 1.5 and 2 quarts roughly in the 2 intervals.

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim

[/quote] What year model is your Si? It shouldn't require thicker, but I'm curious what the book calls for in your engine. No thicker for where you live anyway, IMO. Thus the suggestion for Mobil 1 0w-30 AFE next time. You say it's not driven much in the winter, so it might not be as big of a deal. It does seem to be shearing, the first sample with mainly GC should have been thicker but it did have some fuel dilution, and this one shows some dilution. So, the OCI is 1 time every 10 months with how much top-off?

 

[Turk]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim

Try a high-end filter for fun with the same oil, and see where the trending heads. Just a simple change to monitor for any variables? Mostly bumper to bumper, stop 'n go, city driving could simply explain the 'blip' in lead/iron. It isn't bad or worrisome by any means, though. Silicon entry is about 2 ppm/1,000 miles(generally 2-3/1k is acceptable IMO). You could try a thinner 0w-30, Mobil 1 AFE? Canada, so start-up wear in cold weather etc?

Yes, this.

 

[absolude]

Ok, thanks for the advice. I used to use Amsoil and Pure One filters some time ago, still have one, SDF20. I stopped using them because of concerns regarding oil flow. I think there were some differences in specks compared to OEM. Is there any high end filter better suited to replace a Honda one?

Originally Posted By: tpitcher

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim

Try a high-end filter for fun with the same oil, and see where the trending heads. Just a simple change to monitor for any variables? Mostly bumper to bumper, stop 'n go, city driving could simply explain the 'blip' in lead/iron. It isn't bad or worrisome by any means, though. Silicon entry is about 2 ppm/1,000 miles(generally 2-3/1k is acceptable IMO). You could try a thinner 0w-30, Mobil 1 AFE? Canada, so start-up wear in cold weather etc?

Yes, this.

 

[OVERKILL]

Looks fine. Establish a trend. Deviations from the trend are what should be worrisome. What you see is likely just your engine's "signature".

 

[addyguy]

Car calls for a 30-weight oil. I'd use something that STAYS a 30-weight for the interval - plain M1 just isn't cutting it here. I'd go back to straight GC.

 

[ltslimjim]

Originally Posted By: addyguy

Car calls for a 30-weight oil. I'd use something that STAYS a 30-weight for the interval - plain M1 just isn't cutting it here. I'd go back to straight GC.

True, if it shears down with extended use(as the desire is), go with a robust 0w-30 that stays in the grade range. For oil filters, I like all of the high-end filters from Royal Purple, M1 EP, Amsoil EaO, Bosch Distance Plus, etc. I think a PureONE is fine for this car, though. Finding an oil that doesn't shear down in the 10-12 month interval is important. I think your car could be a great candidate for Amsoil's AZO 0w-30. Especially if you can top off with 1 quart during the interval.

 

[absolude]

Thanks for all the help. You guys are great, I should stick around to stay updated. I actually wanted to use Amsoil a year or so ago but my emails to canadian dealers were not answered. I got some GC on sale a little while ago but I will try to find Amsoil again. Would be nice to compare. Motul seem to become more popular around here.

 

[Pablo]

Originally Posted By: absolude

Thanks for all the help. You guys are great, I should stick around to stay updated. I actually wanted to use Amsoil a year or so ago but my emails to canadian dealers were not answered. I got some GC on sale a little while ago but I will try to find Amsoil again. Would be nice to compare.

You don't need to buy from a Canadian dealer. You can order it yourself and I can support you. To place a phone order: Call 1-800-956-5695 and give the clerk #515729, if you want literature, etc as well. For tech support you can contact me or Amsoil directly.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: absolude

Cool, I'll try that. I stopped using 0w30 since the car is driven very little over the winter. Probably I was wrong but I thought the 5w30 will offer better protection on start-up.

Its just the opposite. Both 0W and 5W are gazillions of times thicker than the thickness of the oil once its up to operating. These numbers are merely a reflection of the viscosity at cold (non operating) temps. Almost no-one understands that. The thinner you can get the oil at startup the better. Not a thing wrong with this analysis and a different filter won't affect anything.

 

[absolude]

You don't need to buy from a Canadian dealer. You can order it yourself and I can support you. To place a phone order: Call 1-800-956-5695 and give the clerk #515729, if you want literature, etc as well. For tech support you can contact me or Amsoil directly. [/quote] Thank you I marked down your number.

 

[absolude]

Originally Posted By: Al

Its just the opposite. Both 0W and 5W are gazillions of times thicker than the thickness of the oil once its up to operating. These numbers are merely a reflection of the viscosity at cold (non operating) temps. Almost no-one understands that. The thinner you can get the oil at startup the better. Not a thing wrong with this analysis and a different filter won't affect anything.

Makes perfect sense, why didn't I think of it that way?

 

[OrdnanceMarine]

Originally Posted By: absolude

It's a 2007, K20Z3, so recommended weigh is 5w30. You are right, OCI at 10 to 12 months. In the winter I drive my old Integra and take the new one out a few times when the roads are dry. Right before changing the oil from first sample I was going through FlashPro tuning. The car is stock besides FlashPro. It took a month, maybe two. Can it have anything to do with the fuel dilution? I added 1.5 and 2 quarts roughly in the 2 intervals.

I don't know how much datalogging you're doing with FlashPro but you might want to do a good bit and make sure everything is spot on. Pb was running a little higher than average so I started datalogging again and realized there was some knock going on, which can be hard on the bearings and might be responsible for the higher Pb. I've been doing UOAs with the same oil since my first change on a brand new car and just received my baseline UOA back with 3500 miles that I took prior to making changes to ignition timing and if my theory is correct, Pb should fall between samples and would confirm that ignition timing was the problem. As far as the iron, do you idle your engine for more than a few seconds before driving? Do you ever start the engine cold, move the car a few feet (in/out of the garage, etc.) and then shut it off? If you do these things they tend to leave more condensation inside the engine and could be the culprit.

 

[Al]

[quote=absolude} Makes perfect sense, why didn't I think of it that way? [/quote] Hahahaha..no biggee