M1 5W-40 TDT in 997.1 Porsche C2S

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Luxter

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Driven from May to Sept. 2011. Normal driving conditions with a mix of hwy and city. Gentle warm ups within 2-3,000 RMPS while cold. Full RPM range once oil gets close to 200F. One more comment: very last drops of oil were collected from oil pan to sample cannister. M1 TDT CI-4/SL. Comments welcome. Thx, Luxter
 
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Looks like it did fine. Stayed in-grade, decent TBN. I think I'd go for M1 0w40 next time. Is this an Alusil block?
 
Those wear levels are so low, I'm not at all concerned about them. I know people go crazy with UOA numbers, and wear rates. However, all things considered, there is essentially no wear occurring.
 
Why?
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: dparm
I think I'd go for M1 0w40 next time.
^^2nd.
 
Yes, even in non-winter months the 0w40 would be beneficial IMO. TDT is a rather unremarkable oil. Unless you're getting it for a really good price, the 0w40 is a better oil.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Those wear levels are so low, I'm not at all concerned about them. I know people go crazy with UOA numbers, and wear rates. However, all things considered, there is essentially no wear occurring.
Very seldom do you see cr at 2. I would go with the 0W-40
 
I have a 2000 Boxster which is essentially the same motor design as yours. Those are good wear numbers, but TDT oil is very high in detergents, which some say is not good for high revving motors like ours. I was first convinced that, based on several on line sources, I should use a heavier weight oil, I used both 15-50 and 20-50 for "flush" oil changes of about 1k miles each (I just got my car and the previous owner went long on the oil change intervals), both to try to get rid of the start up rattle and since I live in Miami Florida where its always hot, to protect against heat breakdown of oil. The heavier weight oils made no demonstrable difference in start up clatter. Then I read the article below and I am a now a convert to M1 0-40. The long and the short of the article is that oil flow is what is important. You want as much volume going through the motor as possible at all times. Since 0-X weight oil is thinner when cold than a 5, 10, 20-X oil, it will provide more volume while the motor is warming up. And remember, oil temp lags behind coolant temp during warmup. My Durametric shows that oil temp is about 10 C degrees behing coolant temp until the coolant gets close to 90 C, which takes a good 20 minutes in my car with combined city/highway driving. Once its up to temp, the oil temp is a little less than 10 C hotter than the collant temp, in the 100-105 C. range. Once the oil is hot, the viscosity in now at 40, which at the oil temps I am running, is more than enough to protect the motor. Now, if I were running my car on the track, oil temps might be significantly higher, so I might consider a heavier oil. But for the type of driving I do, I am convinced a 0-40 oil will protect the engine better during the crucial warm up, which if you do a lot of short trip city driving, will be a big portion of the time you are driving your car. http://www.planet-9.com/cayman-boxster-tech/60791-calling-all-engineers-motor-heads.html
 
Thank you all for your comments. A couple of clarifications: The M1 TDT oil was indeed CI-4+(Plus)/SL as BobFout diligently noticed. Interestingly, I saw increased oil temperatures compared to other oils in similar driving conditions. I did not datalog temperatures with Durametric, but just to give you some idea, oil temp. was frequently in upper half of 200-250 range which was/is relatively unusual for my driving conditions. Worth noticing is the fact that the engine ran very smoothly and quietly. I am well aware of the write-up by Dr. Haas. It makes sense as long as oils perform to the specification sheet and behave as Newtonian fluid. I ran my car on M1 0W-40 before. I was not impressed with more engine noise and some oil consumption. M1TDT fixed these issues which was a step in right direction. I currently run Motul X-Clean in 5W-40 flavor and I can see instant improvement in oil temperatures. In fact I spent part of last weekend driving pretty hard with lots of WOT (Yeah, I know – hard job!) and to my surprise, oil temperatures remained marginally above 200F mark and quickly dropping to 200F. Very impressive so far. Dparm posted recently his UOA on Motul 300V and concerns about possible cylinder scoring. Well, there are similar issues with P-cars due to engine overheat (for various reasons). I had similar concern with above average Aluminum content in my OUA. To date I did not run any heavier than 40 grade oils in my car and only one that was actually not A40 approved (Amsoil AFL). I can totally understand the Internet drive to heavier grades, appreciate your comments Saab 9000. Due to oil temperature concerns stated above heavier grades are not what I am looking for. I will post Motul X-Clean results, unfortunately not sooner than spring next year. So far, it seems to be doing great job in my sump and yes, it’s A40 approved.
 
"CI-4 oils still around? crzy That was 10 years ago (CI-4+ is old now even)" What other CI-4 oils are still available? I'm actually searching for my two oldies, but find only CJ-4.
 
Originally Posted By: Luxter
Thank you all for your comments. A couple of clarifications: The M1 TDT oil was indeed CI-4+(Plus)/SL as BobFout diligently noticed. Interestingly, I saw increased oil temperatures compared to other oils in similar driving conditions. I did not datalog temperatures with Durametric, but just to give you some idea, oil temp. was frequently in upper half of 200-250 range which was/is relatively unusual for my driving conditions. Worth noticing is the fact that the engine ran very smoothly and quietly. I am well aware of the write-up by Dr. Haas. It makes sense as long as oils perform to the specification sheet and behave as Newtonian fluid. I ran my car on M1 0W-40 before. I was not impressed with more engine noise and some oil consumption. M1TDT fixed these issues which was a step in right direction. I currently run Motul X-Clean in 5W-40 flavor and I can see instant improvement in oil temperatures. In fact I spent part of last weekend driving pretty hard with lots of WOT (Yeah, I know – hard job!) and to my surprise, oil temperatures remained marginally above 200F mark and quickly dropping to 200F. Very impressive so far. Dparm posted recently his UOA on Motul 300V and concerns about possible cylinder scoring. Well, there are similar issues with P-cars due to engine overheat (for various reasons). I had similar concern with above average Aluminum content in my OUA. To date I did not run any heavier than 40 grade oils in my car and only one that was actually not A40 approved (Amsoil AFL). I can totally understand the Internet drive to heavier grades, appreciate your comments Saab 9000. Due to oil temperature concerns stated above heavier grades are not what I am looking for. I will post Motul X-Clean results, unfortunately not sooner than spring next year. So far, it seems to be doing great job in my sump and yes, it’s A40 approved.
The difference in oil temp is very interesting. shocked2 I wonder if it's visco, HTHS or base stock related?
 
Originally Posted By: vintageant
"CI-4 oils still around? crzy That was 10 years ago (CI-4+ is old now even)" What other CI-4 oils are still available? I'm actually searching for my two oldies, but find only CJ-4.
There are a few CI-4+ oils from Amsoil and Royal Purple. Not sure if any CI-4 oils are still around, though.
 
The viscosities at 100*C aren't that different, HTHS isn't hugely different either and we are quite away from 150*C (under 250*F < 120*C). That leaves us with base oils?
Originally Posted By: BobFout
The difference in oil temp is very interesting. shocked2 I wonder if it's visco, HTHS or base stock related?
 
Originally Posted By: Luxter
The viscosities at 100*C aren't that different, HTHS isn't hugely different either and we are quite away from 150*C (under 250*F < 120*C). That leaves us with base oils?
Originally Posted By: BobFout
The difference in oil temp is very interesting. shocked2 I wonder if it's visco, HTHS or base stock related?
I wish I still had the spec sheet on CI-4+ TDT. It was a tad thicker than today's TDT for visco and HTHS.
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Those wear levels are so low, I'm not at all concerned about them. I know people go crazy with UOA numbers, and wear rates. However, all things considered, there is essentially no wear occurring.
You call those wear numbers low? Aluminum and iron are both over 10. I've seen wear numbers lower than that many times in this UOA section.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Those wear levels are so low, I'm not at all concerned about them. I know people go crazy with UOA numbers, and wear rates. However, all things considered, there is essentially no wear occurring.
You call those wear numbers low? Aluminum and iron are both over 10. I've seen wear numbers lower than that many times in this UOA section.
I was seeing 250PPM lead in my turbo cars. On teardown, the wear was insignificant, same goes for well over 100PPM iron. People here really think that there is a difference between 4PPM and 30PPM iron. Sorry, but those are great numbers. 175,000 miles of turbo use, 1 overhaul, many connecting rods and head gaskets on my turbo 1.8L Mazda. Years and years of turbo experience with Ford 2.3L development back in the late 70's and 80's. The synthetics show lower wear, often significantly. I suspect that some oils suspend tiny particulates better too. Dino oils often provide very low wear numbers. Yet the cylinders show ridges and expected "standard wear". I've been doing this a very long time now. I'm not the worlds leading expert. But I do know what works for me. The proof is in the teardown. With that oil, those numbers are superb.
 
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