M1 5W-40 Formula M vs 0W-40

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

SIXSPEED

Joined
Aug 13, 2010
Messages
528
Location
Arizona
My father just took delivery of a 2012 E350 sedan with the 6-cylinder DI engine. The dealer recommends M1 5W-40 Formula M, which they sell for a very reasonable price of $6/qt. I was considering using M1 0W-40, which is more readily available. The 0W-40 has a higher TBN; 11.8 vs. 8 for Formula M. Any thoughts or recommendations on using one vs the other?
 
I am assuming that the formula M was created specifically to address the oil related issues with DI engines like deposits and fuel dilution, you could use 0w40, but if the dealers oil is cheaper and of the same quality I would use that, then they have NOTHING to say when something goes wrong internally and you bring it in. $6 a quart is really quite cheap for quality oil, and that is at the dealer crzy. Base TBN numbers are not always a good way to pick an oil, you need to actually know which one has and holds a better TBN, you would have to scour through the UOA section and see which one hold up better and for longer, 0w40 is posted all over in there, I have yet to see a 5w40 M UOA or VOA.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
If the engine is a diesel you must use the Formula M. If it is gasoline the 0W40 will be a far better oil, however; and it meets the specs for gasoline oils for 2012 MB (229.5). Charlie
 
It's a low saps oil if this is the same Formula M I've seen in pepboys. Unless MB has moved their gassers to some new catalytic converter or changed their mind with regards to low-saps and gassers in the US the Formula M has been reserved for their diesels.
 
Wow, Formula M is not as stout as I would have hoped, you can never go wrong with 0w40 M1.
 
When I stated "you must use Formula M for a diesel" I meant the ESP version. I didn't know the non ESP Formula M was available in the US. But I still would prefer the 0W40. Charlie
 
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
It's a low saps oil if this is the same Formula M I've seen in pepboys.
It's not the same. PepBoys sells Formula M ESP. Formula M ESP is in fact low-saps with a starting TBN of about 5.5. But there is also regular Formula M with somewhat higher starting TBN, presumably a mid-saps oil. It's a dealer-only product. As a side note, in Europe XOM has also launched M1 0w-40 ESP version which meets Dexos2 spec, among others.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
You said "the dealer reccomended 5-40" but what does the manuel say?
The MB owner's manual requires 229.5 approved oils and recommends choosing an oil viscosity based on prevailing outside temperature ... anything from a 0W30 to a 10W60 is listed so it's a rather wide range.
 
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
If the engine is a diesel you must use the Formula M. If it is gasoline the 0W40 will be a far better oil, however; and it meets the specs for gasoline oils for 2012 MB (229.5). Charlie
The E350 has the 3.5L gasoline engine.
 
Originally Posted By: SIXSPEED
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
If the engine is a diesel you must use the Formula M. If it is gasoline the 0W40 will be a far better oil, however; and it meets the specs for gasoline oils for 2012 MB (229.5). Charlie
The E350 has the 3.5L gasoline engine.
Since its a gas engine.....M1 0w40 would be my choice...and its considered one of the best, if not the best, Mobil oils....by many here on BITOG.
 
Originally Posted By: SIXSPEED
Originally Posted By: tig1
You said "the dealer reccomended 5-40" but what does the manuel say?
The MB owner's manual requires 229.5 approved oils and recommends choosing an oil viscosity based on prevailing outside temperature ... anything from a 0W30 to a 10W60 is listed so it's a rather wide range.
What does MB currently recommend as far as OCI? Is it 10K miles? What we've seen in many cases is that due to the fact that US does not have ultra-low sulfur gasoline, some of these low-saps and mid-saps oils don't fare too well over extended drain intervals, unlike in Europe where gasoline quality is better. It might be interesting to see a UOA in your car after 10K miles to help determine if this Formula M is up to the task. I would think it'd be OK. You have a a fairly large oil sump.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
What does MB currently recommend as far as OCI? Is it 10K miles?
I don't have the 2012 Maintenance manual with me, but the 2011 manual states 10,000 miles or 1 year. I don't expect this interval to change for 2012. Oil capacity is 6.9 quarts. I'll do a UOA on the factory fill, but it will be a while.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Here is M1 Formula M 5w-40: http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_Formula_M_5W-40.aspx Here is M1 Formula M 5w-40 ESP: http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil1_ESP_Formula_M_5W-40.aspx Too bad we don't know what the NOACK is for the two. For a DI engine application, I'd prefer an oil with a low NOACK. To meet the MB 229.5 spec an oil has to have NOACK no higher than 10%, so we at least know it's no higher than that.
Is this oil posted on the main M1 page anywhere? I don't see it. Interesting this product exists at all. What exactly is the point of it considering MB works so closely with M1 to develop the 0W-40? The only cert it's got is 229.5. Unless there's a compelling reason to use it I'll take the high VI of 0W-40.
 
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
What exactly is the point of it
The point of it is that being mid-SAPs, it should at least theoretically be more DI engine friendly due to less valve deposits. Whether it actually makes a noticeable difference in real life, I don't know. Supposedly some of the ESP oils do make a difference, and this Formula M is somewhere half way between ESP and M1 0w-40.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
What exactly is the point of it
The point of it is that being mid-SAPs, it should at least theoretically be more DI engine friendly due to less valve deposits. Whether it actually makes a noticeable difference in real life, I don't know. Supposedly some of the ESP oils do make a difference, and this Formula M is somewhere half way between ESP and M1 0w-40.
Sulfated Ash, wt% for M1 0W-40 is 1.3% vs. 0.9% for their Formula M 5W-40. Since the engine is DI; this is something to consider. http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_0W-40.aspx
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: vinu_neuro
What exactly is the point of it
The point of it is that being mid-SAPs, it should at least theoretically be more DI engine friendly due to less valve deposits. Whether it actually makes a noticeable difference in real life, I don't know. Supposedly some of the ESP oils do make a difference, and this Formula M is somewhere half way between ESP and M1 0w-40.
Good point. Though the guy with the A6 producing enough valve deposits every 1k miles to misfire despite cleaning by far had the best results with M1 0W-40. He also tried M1 TDT with much worse results, and maybe also Rotella iirc. But those are diesel oils, maybe this will work better in DI gasoline engines.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

F
M1 0W-40 vs M1 5W-40 for Mercedes E55 AMG
Replies
6
Views
1K
loneryder
V
2015 Ford Fusion, 2.0L Ecoboost, 12.5K, Amsoil SSO 0w-40
Replies
10
Views
1K
volk06
92saturnsl2
Mobil1 Euro FS 5w-40 API SP / 5120 mi. / 2018 Buick Tour-X 2.0 TGDI
2
Replies
29
Views
1K
TiGeo
H
0w-40 Euro in John Deere Kawasaki
Replies
14
Views
1K
userfriendly
E
M1 0W40 FS (updated formula) vs PPE 5W40 (API SP)
3 4 5
Replies
90
Views
22K
edyvw
Top