Many people have told me that when M1 first came out they advertised 25K mile changes. Amsoil's CEO in there latest news letter said Mobil 1 is a great oil, but it isn't designed for long interval changes, so that is why are oil is better, because it doesnt have to be. What is the deal? Can or is it designed for longer drains or don't they use the additives for this?
M1 @ 25,000 Miles
- Thread starter buster
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Without going back and looking at all of the oil analysis posted. (You could do this). I think that Amsoil has put up slightly better numbers than Mobil 1-generally. But its not by much and in different cars may be worse. Now that the SuperSyn is here the difference may be non-existant. They are both great oils. (IMHO)
Patman
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I personally think Mobil 1, just like Amsoil, is good for extended drains, Mobil 1 just doesn't want the liability of admitting to it. I don't think 25k drains are a smart thing to do though (with either oil) unless someone drives 100% highway driving on long trips. But 10-15k or one year should be quite easy with both oils for most drivers.
Patman
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I wish I had saved it, but I had an old Car and Driver a few years ago, from the 1980s, and it had a Mobil 1 ad which mentioned 25k or 1 year old changes.
I have to remark on the 25K mile change thinking. I was just over at LS1.com and a thread titled Amsoil caught my eye so I read it. It was the usual question about how does it compare to M1, Redline etc.. but the crazy part is that a few people were advertising how they use Amsoil to 25K mile changes and another guy mentioned how one of his cars had 50,000 miles and he's only changed the oil twice
Amsoil and M1 are both great Synthetic oils, however Amsoil's additive chemistry seems to be more suited for longer drain intervals. IMHO M1 for it's price, availability and engine protection is the best value Synthetic on the market.
Well, unlike Amsoil at the time Mobil marketed a dino oil and I think part of the issue was the Mobil 1 would be cutting into sales of the dino if advertised as 25,000 miles. I remember the ads and it was 25000 but between their own marketing people, the auto manufacturers they caved in and went with recommended intervals. Amsoil XL series is no longer synthetic by pure definition
Mobil 1 oils are extended drain interval oils by virtue of their ACEA A3 or A5 qualifications:
"A3--Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended for use in high performance gasoline engines and / or for extended drain intervals where specified by the engine manufacturer, and / or for year-round use of low viscosity oils, and/or for severe
operating conditions as defined by the engine manufacturer.
A5--Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended for use at extended drain intervals in high performance gasoline engines designed to be capable of using low friction, low viscosity oils with a HT/HS of 2.9 to 3.5 mPa.s. These oils may be unsuitable for use in some engines. Consult owner manual or handbook if in doubt."
http://www.acea.be/ACEA/20020618PublicationsOilSequences.pdf
But...in Europe the car maker recommends long drain intervals, the oil maker provides the suitable oil, and the car owners want it that way. In the U. S. the car maker does not recommend long drain intervals, most oil makers won't stick their necks out, and most car owners would freak out. Marketing reasons for the oil's relatively short ODI?...liability reasons?...anyway, the oil marketing matches the car makers ODI recommendation.
Isn't Honda up to 10,000 mile ODI for some of their 2003 U. S. engines?...and that's on 5W-20!
Ken
"A3--Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended for use in high performance gasoline engines and / or for extended drain intervals where specified by the engine manufacturer, and / or for year-round use of low viscosity oils, and/or for severe
operating conditions as defined by the engine manufacturer.
A5--Stable, stay-in-grade oil intended for use at extended drain intervals in high performance gasoline engines designed to be capable of using low friction, low viscosity oils with a HT/HS of 2.9 to 3.5 mPa.s. These oils may be unsuitable for use in some engines. Consult owner manual or handbook if in doubt."
http://www.acea.be/ACEA/20020618PublicationsOilSequences.pdf
But...in Europe the car maker recommends long drain intervals, the oil maker provides the suitable oil, and the car owners want it that way. In the U. S. the car maker does not recommend long drain intervals, most oil makers won't stick their necks out, and most car owners would freak out. Marketing reasons for the oil's relatively short ODI?...liability reasons?...anyway, the oil marketing matches the car makers ODI recommendation.
Isn't Honda up to 10,000 mile ODI for some of their 2003 U. S. engines?...and that's on 5W-20!
Ken
Beat me to it, mdv. I don't know what they make from factory fill contracts (if anything), but the co-marketing exposure must be very valuable. I assume it's enough to override getting a good night's sleep.
David
When the Mobil I first came out it stated 25K Mile drains right on the can, which was an all metal, very nice can. No mention of 1 year drains that I remember. I don't recall the print advertising mentioning anything about 1 year drain. The price for 1 quart hovered around $4.25 a quart for as long as I can remember. So today's price for Mobil I is still a bargin.
Do you remember the Mobil 1 back in the mid 70's? If I'm not mistaken it was only available on the retail market in a 5W-20, and was only available in the northeast. I recall reading a Popular Mechanics article on it. If I recall a Ford engineer used it in his Lincoln, and of course reported remarkable results - engine cleanliness, etc. The article made mention of the fact the oil wasn't available in warmer climates because with the 5W-20 weight there was a possibility of the oil pressure dropping to virtually zero in a very hot climate.
Patman
Staff member
Maybe I was wrong on the one year claims on Mobil 1, but I do recall the 25k claims for sure.
When I first started using Mobil 1 in 1988 I think it still said 25k on the bottle too. They only had 5w30 at that time up here. I only used it for one interval on my 88 Dodge Shadow ES Turbo, and didn't like it because 5w30 made a nasty cold start rattle on that car. So I went to 10w30 Castrol XLR at 2k intervals! Later on when I sold the car to my sister, I switched it over to Mobil 1 again, but by then the 10w30 was up here. She ran that car over 125k, and then the turbo died. Engine burned a bit of oil by then too. (or maybe it was the turbo using oil?)
When I first started using Mobil 1 in 1988 I think it still said 25k on the bottle too. They only had 5w30 at that time up here. I only used it for one interval on my 88 Dodge Shadow ES Turbo, and didn't like it because 5w30 made a nasty cold start rattle on that car. So I went to 10w30 Castrol XLR at 2k intervals! Later on when I sold the car to my sister, I switched it over to Mobil 1 again, but by then the 10w30 was up here. She ran that car over 125k, and then the turbo died. Engine burned a bit of oil by then too. (or maybe it was the turbo using oil?)
I tend to think it is a marketing thing....I mean consider this: 5 quarts of mobile one, changed every 25K, at say, $5 a quart, that is 20 quarts at $100 over a say 5 year period. -OR- 5 quarts of Mobile One, at $5 a quart, changed every 3000 Miles, because thats what most people believe they should do, for 100K that makes 166 quarts, @ $5 a quart, should come out to over $800 over that same 5 year period. MORE MONEY SPENT....
One other thing, If Amsoil wanted more cash, they could just as easily do the same, but then no one would want to mail order it, and pay the asking price for Amsoil, if it wasn't marketed as a 25K change. And even Amsoil, knows deep inside that very few people would use it for that long anyhow, ask most users, they don't. So they still make $ on it. I believe both are great oils, and would be confortable using either one. Maybe if Wal-mart carried it........
Ken,
The Germans and Swedes - SAAB/Volvo - are also up to 10,000 mile change intervals on most of their engines. The VW 2.0L and VR-6 engines are @ 10,000 miles as far back as 1997. The BMW/Mercedes models have the flexible service schedules and sumps of 7.9-9.0 quarts in order to facilitate drain intervals of 10k-18k miles, with the correct synthetic lubes meeting BMW high performance and DB 229.5 specifications.
Sometime you'll have to tell me what a Marine Engineer does exactly? Are you working with the big, very low rpm diesels?
Ted
The Germans and Swedes - SAAB/Volvo - are also up to 10,000 mile change intervals on most of their engines. The VW 2.0L and VR-6 engines are @ 10,000 miles as far back as 1997. The BMW/Mercedes models have the flexible service schedules and sumps of 7.9-9.0 quarts in order to facilitate drain intervals of 10k-18k miles, with the correct synthetic lubes meeting BMW high performance and DB 229.5 specifications.
Sometime you'll have to tell me what a Marine Engineer does exactly? Are you working with the big, very low rpm diesels?
Ted
Diesels and steam turbines, and a few gas turbines. The biggest diesel I've worked on was a straight 12 two-stroke, 57,500 hp, 84 cm (33") bore and the stroke was about three times the bore. The engine weighed about 1750 tons and was 3 storeys tall. Minimum speed was 35 rpm and top speed was 95 rpm. Those engines are reversable and direct coupled to the propeller shaft. It used separate 30 wt. crankcase oil and 60 wt. TBN 70 cylinder oil pumped directly into ports in the cylinder walls; about a ton a day of cylinder oil at full power. The crankcase oil, about 30 tons worth, stays clean, is centrifuged, and usually lasts the life of the engine. The piston rod is hard bolted to the piston and passes through a seal. The "wrist pin" is called the crosshead assembly and located below that seal, then the connecting rod goes to the crankshaft. Four turbochargers were fitted along with three electric blowers which supplied scavenge air at slow speeds. One exhaust valve, about 18" diameter, in each head; each head weighs 7 tons. All bolts are hydraulically stretched to tighten or loosen. The fuel is heavy black oil heated to about 250°F and about 3% sulfur. Currently, similar engines are available with 104,000 hp on a straight 14.
Ken
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