M1 10w30, 8.1L (496ci), 2001 Chevy 2500HD, 2K miles, still has high lead

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UNIT NUMBER: 01 CHEVY
EQUIPMENT MODEL: 8.1L 496 CI V-8
FUEL TYPE: Gasoline (Unleaded)
OIL USE INTERVAL: 2,161 Miles
OIL TYPE & GRADE: Mobil 1 10W/30 (Gas)
MAKE-UP OIL ADDED: 0 qts (sump capacity 7QT)

Blackstone comments: We would not expect this very slight level of coolant to cause the bearing wear found last time. This oil was
in use about 1/3 the miles of the last sample, and lead and tin came right down, which is good. Lead is still
reading high, but some of it in this sample is residual from the last oil in use. We would expect to find Dexcool
in the potassium and sodium levels, and the 7 ppm sodium we found is really not enough to show a problem. We suggest
running the next oil 2200 miles and resampling for another look. Maybe lead will continue to drop!


code:

MI ON OIL 2,161 6,692 M1 10w30

MI ON UNIT 48,066 45,904 VOA

TBN No Data 5.3 10-12.5

ALUMINUM 3 4 0

CHROMIUM 1 1 0

IRON 11 26 1

COPPER 3 5 0

LEAD 18 51 0

TIN 1 4 0

MOLYBDENUM 82 93 69

NICKEL 0 1 0

MANGANESE 0 0 0

SILVER 0 0 0

TITANIUM 0 0 0

POTASSIUM 2 2 0

BORON 170 159 190

SILICON 5 8 3

SODIUM 7 8 9

CALCIUM 3,562 3,609 2,976

MAGNESIUM 21 31 16

PHOSPHORUS 804 920 749

ZINC 1,066 1,155 827

BARIUM 0 0 0

\

sus viscosity@

210f 63.0 65.4 58.3

flash point 400 365 390

fuel%
antifreze% 0 0 No Data

water% 0.0 0.0 No Data

insoluables% 0.2 0.3 No Data


Fresh oil values taken from Mobil 1 Virgin Oil Analysis Compendium . But I think Mobil has tweaked the formula since then including thickening it


Last UOA Blacksone mentioned the sodium levels as a possible coolant leak indicator. but the coolant test came up neg, with this sample I asked if a small coolant seep (one so small that did not show on the coolant test) would cause bearing wear like that, I also asked weather their coolant test can detect GM Dex-cool. That should shed some light on Blackstones coments. The sodium level is actually in line with what comes in with the M1, and it actually drops as it is in the engine. The potassium is very low, I looked at a few other UOA's and it seams in line with many other vehicles. The coolant tank level has not dropped, the system holds pressure even if left to sit for 36 hrs, I either have no coolant leak or such a small leak that it is un-important. it cannot be sensed anything at my disposal.

This is my only vehicle so it sees a varied work load, mainly 30mile one way freeway daily commute, some local suburban driving (groceries etc). On this OCI one 4,000 pound tow to Tennessee and back (should be nothing for this HD truck), 2 bottles of Chevron Techron concentrate were added to the fuel near the beginning. No other additives to the oil or gas were used. This sample was taken just before installing a bypass filter, the oil was not changed, no TBN because I would assume the oil is still plenty strong after only 2,000 miles. The TBN made the 6k OCI just fine

At first glance the lead looks a lot better but if you look at the # of miles it actually looks the same, this shows that it was not a problem of worn out old oil not protecting as the lead wear is still happening right after the oil change, 18 x 3 is 54 dillute with one qt of makup oil and it is close to the 51ppm of the 6k OCI, I am starting to think the truck may have a defective bearing
frown.gif



I am going to take this oil to 4k sample and see what the bypass filter can do, and then try the thicker GC this winter and a HDMO this spring when it warms up, see if it helps but I doubt it,

GM ****** me
mad.gif
This is on top of the Piston slap that started @ 250 total miles that they refused to fix

[ November 20, 2003, 04:34 AM: Message edited by: RavenTai ]
 
I agree you don't have a coolant leak. I do know that Techron treatments will raise the lead on a UOA. It has been discussed on this site many times. It is suppose to not be actual lead but shows as lead on a UOA. Weather this is the full reason for the high lead or not I am not sure. Just don't use it for your next run and UOA and see what happens. All your other wear metals seem fine. Actually an excellent report without the lead.
 
Tai,

Recommendation: Discontinue the use of the Techron at least for the next 10,000 miles or next two drain intervals.

We have been seeing that some of the fuel additives, especially those "stout" dosages of OTC additives, increase bottom-end wear.
 
So you believe it is current wear? I sure hope not because I probably smoked my bearings years ago if that's the case. Believe it or not I actually used a full bottle Techron with only a few gallons of gas!! Wish bitog was around back then!
I believe Terry has stated the residual cleaner can strip up microscopic residual soft metals and it's not actually current wear.

Was Techron used the previous interval also? If not, maybe that isn't the cause.

[ November 20, 2003, 06:16 PM: Message edited by: Jason Troxell ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by Jason Troxell:
So you believe it is current wear?

I think so, motor should be well broken in at 50k, break in metals should be rinsed out by now, it has had m1 10-30 since 1.5k miles with regular changes should be little varnish/sludge to collect/release wear metals, also it has seen the same loads, driving patterns and maintenance since new. Wear metals should be consistent pattern now. I would think this is current wear, am I off base?


TR3/MolaKule will do, never been a fan of additives anyway, they are expensive and you never know what they really are, I tried the techron because some on a chevy truck board say it helped them with the Vortec cold start knock (piston slap) I can't tell any improvement I think I am going to swear off additives all together from now on, Techron was mentioned in the previous UOA thread but unfortunately this was just after I had already used the concentrate in the beginning of this oils life

It was not a "stout" dosage, the bottle says it treats up to 12 gallons, I have a 26 gallon tank and put in 2 bottles at fill-up as directed

No techron concentrate in the previous OCI (6.6k) or any recent oci, I have used it in the past don't remember exactly when but it was over a year ago

[ November 20, 2003, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: RavenTai ]
 
IRON 11 26 COPPER 3 5 LEAD 18 51
----------------------------------
Lead= Berings, but other wear looks okay... and you say no Fuel additives. Then maybe it is the fuel. Try different gasoline stations, and keep this on a short OCI until the problem is solved.
 
Your gonna think I am crazy for saying this, but have you ever considered a HDEO 15w-40, such as Delo 400?

I don't have analysis numbers to back me up, but I've gotten a few guys around here with big-block truck engines, such as the Ford 460 and Chevy 454 to switch over to HDEO 15w-40's. A few are using Delo, and one is using Delvac 1300. They are very impressed with the oils (even at first, they were very much against running "diesel" oil...).

I would suggest Delo 400 and although I don't know how much you'd like to spend on filters, a K&N oil filter.

[ November 20, 2003, 11:11 PM: Message edited by: Jelly ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by Jelly:
Your gonna think I am crazy for saying this, but have you ever considered a HDEO 15w-40, such as Delo 400?

actually Yes I have! and really like the idea of stronger film strength in the bearing a higher viscosity will bring, I am just worried to try a 15-40 HDMO for the first time in the winter, so I am going to try GC for the winter witch may be a 0w-30 but is still thicker at 212f than M1 10w-30

the manual says to use 5w-30 in all climates, you are allowed to use 10w30 but it is not recommended, no other are allowed, I think that is all CAFE talking.
 
I wouldn't hesitate to use a HDEO 15w-40 such as Delo in winter conditions you will encounter in Georgia, but it's your call.

Good luck with whatever you try.

Hmmm...$6/gallon. Buy two gallons for $12 dollars.
What's the K&N filter cost...$10?

Got $22 in excess cash?

I'm just figuring you can at least try it before you move on to something that will be much more expensive.

[ November 20, 2003, 11:59 PM: Message edited by: Jelly ]
 
The two times I used Techron during an oil run on my 98 5.7L chevy, I got 55ppm of lead during a 5,000 mile oil run and 43ppm of lead during a 3,000 mile run. This was using 5W-30 Mobil 1. I got 35ppm of lead on a 5,000 mile run using 10W-30 Mobil 1 and I used Fuel Power and Auto-Rx 3oz maintenance dose. I do think that fuel additives can cause higher lead levels because the times I did not use it I got 9 & 18ppm of lead during 3,000 mile runs.

Like others have said, quit using the fuel additives and see what happens. Might also try a different brand of oil.

wayne
 
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