M1 0W40 FS (updated formula) vs PPE 5W40 (API SP)

elansprint

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I never noticed difference between M1, PPE and Castrol 0W40 in N52. In VW CC I had and VW Passat 1.8T, M1 was running rougher.
I track E90 and Castrol Edge 0W40 had excellent results. I tracked it with M1 too and PPE but never did UOA.
Can you get M1 5W40?
Nope, can't get the 5W40 M1 for competitive prices either. I couldn't justify any extra cost to myself when an LL-01 oil is available locally for under C$35/5L.

Are both of those EA888? I used the M1 in 2019 for 9000km in the 2.0 gen 3 because I mistakenly thought it specified VW502 at the time. Thought it ran rougher than the PPE that was in it before but I ignored it by closing the door before starting. The engine seems to make a big racket from the valvetrain for >5 min after starting below 0°C now regardless of what oil I'm using.
 

elansprint

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I went out and bought a few jugs of M1 0W40 because the sale was ending soon, production date November 4, 2021. No way of determining whether this is the -60°C formulation or not, right? I remember reading that 6294 is printed on both versions but I can't find the thread now..
 

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Nope, can't get the 5W40 M1 for competitive prices either. I couldn't justify any extra cost to myself when an LL-01 oil is available locally for under C$35/5L.

Are both of those EA888? I used the M1 in 2019 for 9000km in the 2.0 gen 3 because I mistakenly thought it specified VW502 at the time. Thought it ran rougher than the PPE that was in it before but I ignored it by closing the door before starting. The engine seems to make a big racket from the valvetrain for >5 min after starting below 0°C now regardless of what oil I'm using.
Ah Canada.
I think I would go whatever makes you feel better:)
Both are good oils.
 

elansprint

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Ah Canada.
I think I would go whatever makes you feel better:)
Both are good oils.
That's the reason I made this post, I'd never be able to tell the difference in use and I don't have any personal preference. 😞

At this point I'm willing to choose PPE solely because it comes in 5L jugs, which is perfect for a car with 7.5L service capacity (and minimal oil consumption). Maybe I can convince myself I like yellow over grey or something.
 
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Anything with updated 2018 approval for LL-01 or LL-04 or it is going to be solid and, IMO, nothing to be afraid of unless you have special circumstances. In my M52 (and every other engine I had at the time) I found M1 products noisy. I switched to GC and never looked back (other than occasional use of Rotella T or T6 in M52, M62, M62TU, N52 applications in particular circumstances) until Castrol 0W40 became unavailable in Canada a couple of years back. I did some looking around again and settled on PPE 5W40 for my N55. Other than observing used oil was grey/black instead of red/brown there have been no problems of any kind. The UOA has been to Blackstone and I have couple more queued up (I know there are questions about Blackstone validity for some tests).
 

elansprint

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Anything with updated 2018 approval for LL-01 or LL-04 or it is going to be solid and, IMO, nothing to be afraid of unless you have special circumstances. In my M52 (and every other engine I had at the time) I found M1 products noisy. I switched to GC and never looked back (other than occasional use of Rotella T or T6 in M52, M62, M62TU, N52 applications in particular circumstances) until Castrol 0W40 became unavailable in Canada a couple of years back. I did some looking around again and settled on PPE 5W40 for my N55. Other than observing used oil was grey/black instead of red/brown there have been no problems of any kind. The UOA has been to Blackstone and I have couple more queued up (I know there are questions about Blackstone validity for some tests).
That's pretty much what I've settled on as well. Will be filling PPE next year as it comes in 5L jugs and contains slightly less Zn which could be better for timing chain wear if the results of Vanderbilt's research on the topic are valid.

Probably confirmation bias, but I seem to hear more noisy running complaints from BMW owners about M1 than any other.
 
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That's pretty much what I've settled on as well. Will be filling PPE next year as it comes in 5L jugs and contains slightly less Zn which could be better for timing chain wear if the results of Vanderbilt's research on the topic are valid.

Probably confirmation bias, but I seem to hear more noisy running complaints from BMW owners about M1 than any other.
Basing an oil choice on what you've heard on the Internet (or elsewhere), typical values on a PDS (slightly less zinc), pour point, because it "runs rougher", a "rhythmic noise" or a $30 spectrographic analysis are about as many unimportant criteria as I can imagine.

But it's what many people on here seem to do.
 

elansprint

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Basing an oil choice on what you've heard on the Internet (or elsewhere), typical values on a PDS (slightly less zinc), pour point, because it "runs rougher", a "rhythmic noise" or a $30 spectrographic analysis are about as many unimportant criteria as I can imagine.

But it's what many people on here seem to do.
I agree for the most part, the majority of it is speculative and I couldn't justify my choice with anyhing past the fact that PPE has LL-01 and is available in a convenient size.

However, I don't know what else is available to the average person when choosing oils for decades-old engines. It stands to reason that a manufacturer's approvals at any given time prioritise performance in its engine designs which are recent enough to be under warranty coverage, so back-spec approvals generally become less relevant as engines designs change over time.
For instance, certain interactions such as that between the rocker arm and camshaft in the M20 wouldn't be found in any N or B series engine, and I wouldn't expect BMW to have carried out its usual level of testing before deeming LL-01 2018 suitable for every engine from M10 to M73.
 
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Longlife-01 is appropriate for old BMW engines such as the M60 that was in my 530i. Anything that listed Special Oils is appropriate. Having said that however, Longlife-04 is also appropriate these days due to the lower sulfur content of modern fuel.

Anything with Porsche A40 or Mercedes-Benz 229.5 is also equivalent. Or something with VW 502 00 (or 504 00) approvals. Such as Castrol Edge 5W-30LL on rollback at Walmart.com for less than $22.
 
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That's pretty much what I've settled on as well. Will be filling PPE next year as it comes in 5L jugs and contains slightly less Zn which could be better for timing chain wear if the results of Vanderbilt's research on the topic are valid.

Probably confirmation bias, but I seem to hear more noisy running complaints from BMW owners about M1 than any other.

Well, at the time M1 was noisy in an Acura, Porsche and BMW all under my care. Maybe it's different now, and the matter is a topic of its own debate I don't need to get into. All three engines went from sounding like threshing machines to being able to hear the belts whine and noticing a single quiet lifter tick I couldn't hear about the top end racket with M1 in there. All this was instant transformation after draining the M1 and putting in literally anything else (Rotella T, GC in my case) and starting it back up.

UOAs of GC vs M1 in the same car with an M52 (whatever the UOAs are worth) showed that both tests had negligible wear, that GC stayed the same viscosity and M1 0W40 sheared down to a mid-30 in 5000-6000 km (not miles). There really wasn't much further thinking or analysis for me to do at the time (mid-2000s) based on those two formulas available at the time. I ran GC -> Castrol 0W40 or BMW TPT (I didn't decline free oil changes on my N55) -> PPE 5W40 after I was forced to make a new choice. All UOAs have been just fine, cleanliness is good, noise is good, and my use case isn't "special". I'm catching some heat from at least one person for saying that my UOAs are good, that LL-01 is a strong spec which should be "just fine" for an engine calling for LL-01 and that, all else being equal, why run an oil that makes your engine sound like crap?

Current M1 formulas might not be "noisy". I don't know, and I'm not wasting the $70-80 it would be up here to find out, and I think my non-M1 options are working out just fine.
 
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Out of the 2 I choose m1 0w40 (also in Canada). My choice is only based on reputation on here though. The only noticeable difference in my truck is 2 psi higher hot oil pressure vs a 5w30.
I would prefer Castrol 0w40 but it's only available in 1L bottles at full price so double what I pay for 5L of m1 on sale.
 
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Napa stores in Canada still carry Castrol 0W-40, as well as Penzoil Platinum 0W-40. Napa Canada has 5L jugs of Castrol Edge 0W-40 for $62.99 right now. PPE 0W-40 is $303.85 for a 22.7L box.

Most of the 0W-40 have PAO in them so they are more expensive and are no longer found at Canadian Tire, Walmart etc. The one exception is M1 0W-40 which comes on sale every couple weeks at Canadian Tire for around $30 for 4.73L.

The latest SDS for M1 0W-40 from November 2021 shows a pour point of -42C. Same for PPE 0w-40. Castrol Edge 0W-40 is -57C.
 
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This was taken yesterday at Canadian Tire in Toronto Canada. Seems they have now added the Fiat extended drain recommendation on top of the VW 503 which was on the bottle in the photo posted a few replies above.
Anyone have more info on this formulation? Is this the same bottle down in the US?
It's about to go on sale here tomorrow for ~$30 a jug and was going to pick some up for my 2014 E63s.


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