M1 0W40, 10.8K miles, elevated Fe and Cu

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Messages
185
Location
ND
This covers 3 consecutive drains: M1 5W20, M1 0W40, Honda 5W20. Fe doubled and Cu went up on the 0W40 interval and returned to normal on the next UOA. Comments?
 
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
2,253
Location
London, England
In all fairness you ran the 0w40 almost 3500 miles longer than your most recent sample and just under 3000 miles more than your first. I suspect that the findings might be a lot more alike if you actually ran each oil to the limit. The TBN was the best in the 0w40 aswell. I don't think Blackstone are hypothosising correctly in saying the longer drain was not significant. I wouldn't run Mobil 1 to nearly 11k without expecting the oil to be we past its best. How about doing a run of the 0w40 for 7500 miles as that will give concrete evidence either way. I was happy to see the Honda 0w20 perform well. A mate has just bought an '07 CR-V, previous shape with wheel on boot. It has 48k on it and is fully loaded with leather, climate and sunroof and is fitted with the very nice 2.2 Diesel engine and a six speed box. It has a service interval of 12k or 1 yr I think and the owners manual has a very good viscosity chart. It looks like a toss up between 0w20 (a first for both of us) or perhaps 5w20 or the old favourite of mine 5w30. It can also run A5/B5 or A3/B4. So in the frame is the Honda 0w20 you have used. 5w20 Castrol Magnatec Professional, or Castrol Magnatec 5w30. (full synth - 6k interval) We will do one change at 6k and the dealer with do one at 12k. He wants this car to last 10 yrs (250k). I have driven it and it is very nice, 40mpg in mixed use.
 
Joined
Feb 18, 2011
Messages
8,015
Location
Hudson, NH
I can't count how many times Blackstone UOA's showing M1 with elevated fe has been discussed. Are people seeing this with M1 and other companies that provide UOA's?
 
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
11,878
Location
PA
If you run an oil that is thicker than necessary, and run it for more miles, there should be no surprise if a UOA turns up bigger numbers.
 
Joined
Dec 20, 2006
Messages
1,403
Location
Beaverton, OR
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
If you run an oil that is thicker than necessary, and run it for more miles, there should be no surprise if a UOA turns up bigger numbers.
+1111111111111 If anything M1 AFE 0w30 is an excellent candidate if you wanna go with a thicker oil. 0w40 is just way too thick for everyday use in these cars. Try M1 AFE 0w30 or even M1 AFE 0w20 with an HTHS rating of 2.7 is another good candidate. Or PP 5w30, one of the thinnest 5w30 in the market.
 
Joined
Jun 9, 2010
Messages
4,573
Location
Merritt Island FL, USA
Either way this is interesting, we don't have enough information or evidence to say anything but the run with 0w40 created a little more wear. Thats it. So going forward just use a good 5w/0w20 and call it a day. As bourne said PP 5w30 is one of the thinnest 30's out and you could use it but why at this point? Good Luck!
 

bubbajoe_2112

Thread starter
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Messages
185
Location
ND
I don't plan on running anything other than 0W20 or 5W20 again. This was an "experiment" mainly to see how a high HTHS/viscosity oil performed in this engine and it's effect on MPG (lost about 1 MPG). FYI, I ran M1 5W20 since new for 14 changes at about 7500 mile intervals (the normal MID interval for me) before trying the 0W40. The interval was longer, but the increase in Fe and Cu was not proportional. I'll have to read up on the M1 and Fe connection mentioned by LeakySeals, but if that's the case, why didn't M1 5W20 have elevated Fe? I wonder if the 0W40 was just to thick and couldn't provide adequate lubrication? Just a guess, and again, very interesting results but not conclusive. I will probably be sticking with the Honda oil since I can get it from my dealer's bulk supply for $2.41/qt (5W20) or $3.41/qt (0W20).
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 17, 2009
Messages
17,997
Location
N.H, U.S.A.
Certain Group III is known to have poorer lubricity and traction than group II. I thought the slack wax base employed in the 0w-40was improved over common petrol base III's. Add high detergency for long life service and lubricity drops further. A Subaru tech and service manager told me Subaru had an internal memo from a few years ago that stated that M1 ( 5w-30?) lubricity was inadequte to lubricate their (turbo?) engines as the surface tension breaks apart in small reciprocating motions. I dont know how Amsoil gets around this (or even if they do) with their package and base blends. Such musings aside, This blip may have just been a cleanup of converted phosphors and sulphurs from past EP activation then add in incorrect viscosity for application which may have caused lack of specific lubrication on an engine worn in for 20 grade.
 
Joined
Jan 4, 2011
Messages
1,491
Location
TX
My Iron was like 76ppm on a 6k OCI. Yours is NOTHING.. I think M1 is an over hyped average oil.. MANY better choices if you just look. I would switch though. Try GC, I'm liking it so far. Buuba, Watch out.. 2 members in particular will be in here to call you an illiterate person and treat you like you just insulted their wives, if you mention ANYTHING bad about M1..
 
Last edited:

OVERKILL

$100 Site Donor 2021
Joined
Apr 28, 2008
Messages
50,615
Location
Ontario, Canada
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
If you run an oil that is thicker than necessary, and run it for more miles, there should be no surprise if a UOA turns up bigger numbers.
Bingo. For reference: 32ppm over 10,868 miles is 0.0029ppm per mile. 16ppm over 7,400 miles is 0.0024ppm per mile. 17ppm over 8,198 miles is 0.0021ppm per mile. This means that ppm per 1,000 miles was: 5w20 run #1: 2.1 5w20 run #2: 2.4 0w40 run ..: 2.9 There was a .3ppm per 1K miles between the two 5w20 runs alone. I don't think the difference between the 0w40 and 5w20 runs is significant, based on the above. That being said, I doubt the OP saw any benefit to running the heavier oil so switching back is the most logical move thumbsup
 
Joined
Dec 30, 2006
Messages
27,562
Location
Dallas,Tx USA
Originally Posted By: DrDusty86
My Iron was like 76ppm on a 6k OCI. Yours is NOTHING.. I think M1 is an over hyped average oil.. MANY better choices if you just look. I would switch though. Try GC, I'm liking it so far. Buuba, Watch out.. 2 members in particular will be in here to call you an illiterate person and treat you like you just insulted their wives, if you mention ANYTHING bad about M1..
Hey Dusty how`s the Syntec so far (startups,smoothness,etc) compared to M1? I bought a jug of Syntec 10W40 for my next oci.
 
Joined
Sep 6, 2012
Messages
2,253
Location
London, England
I can confirm that my wife's Clio is very slightly quieter when she comes back from work, she comes home around 20:00hrs and we live in a culdesac so I can hear her park up. This is on 10w40 Maxlife synth blend left over from my recent Taxi OC. So decided to use it up. Might try 5w40 Castrol Edge next, or just go back to M1 0w40. As Overk1ll stated the difference isn't that great when you consider the variables. Also who is to say the increase in wear metals is going to be linear as the oil goes past it's best. The only way to confirm is to UOA at the same intervals as previously. Which the OP isn't going to do, and as has run the -w20 for many miles without problems I can see his point exactly.
 
Joined
Nov 11, 2010
Messages
9,779
Location
Saskatoon canada
Originally Posted By: bubbajoe_2112
I don't plan on running anything other than 0W20 or 5W20 again. This was an "experiment" mainly to see how a high HTHS/viscosity oil performed in this engine and it's effect on MPG (lost about 1 MPG). FYI, I ran M1 5W20 since new for 14 changes at about 7500 mile intervals (the normal MID interval for me) before trying the 0W40. The interval was longer, but the increase in Fe and Cu was not proportional. I'll have to read up on the M1 and Fe connection mentioned by LeakySeals, but if that's the case, why didn't M1 5W20 have elevated Fe? I wonder if the 0W40 was just to thick and couldn't provide adequate lubrication? Just a guess, and again, very interesting results but not conclusive. I will probably be sticking with the Honda oil since I can get it from my dealer's bulk supply for $2.41/qt (5W20) or $3.41/qt (0W20).
Perhaps the minor elevation in wear metals is due to start up,and the oil taking that few minutes longer to reach operating temp. The elevation in iron is minor since the oil was run longer. This uoa may not mean much however it does lend credence to caterhams thin ideas.
 
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Messages
753
Location
MA
Thin to win. Looks like Honda engineers actually know what they are talking about. laugh I like the experiment, and thanks for posting. Nice car, btw. That generation TL is a looker. Are you rowing your own gears?
 
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Messages
753
Location
MA
Did you have the timing belt replaced during this string of oc's? Would be curious how the old one looked.
 
Joined
Jul 15, 2005
Messages
13,189
Location
Maricopa Arizona
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Good balance. The PureOne catches what the K&N missed.
This could be. Notice the very slight increase insols despite the decrease in the length on the OCI. But it is far from anything I would be concerned about.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top