Trying to decide on an oil to use in a VQ35HR for winters that are typically in the 20F range but sometimes drop below 0F. M1 0W-40 and PU 5W-30 are at the top of my list. Would there be much of a difference in viscosity at startup between these? Normally a 0W- would be thinner than a 5W- but since its a 40 vs 30 I wonder how much difference there really is between them. If PU only made a 0W-30 there would be no dilemma...
M1 0W-40 or PU 5W-30 - which is thinner when cold?
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PU 5W-30 being a much lighter oil to start with (HTHSV of 3.1cP vs 3.8cP for M1) will be lighter at even the coldest temp's you're going to encounter.
PP and PU 5W-30 have very good MRV spec's and could very well meet the 0W spec' but for marketing purposes aren't labelled as 0W-30 oils.
PP and PU 5W-30 have very good MRV spec's and could very well meet the 0W spec' but for marketing purposes aren't labelled as 0W-30 oils.
JHZR2
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Fairly different oils, one is A3, one is A1/5. That is going to effect all properties.
At 20F, the differences will likely be small. Since the 40wt will approach a higher viscosity, it may be slightly more viscous.
It's speculation unless you do a temperature-controlled rheometer test. Math via fitting curves nonlinearly from two points isnt necessarily a viable analysis.
At 20F, the differences will likely be small. Since the 40wt will approach a higher viscosity, it may be slightly more viscous.
It's speculation unless you do a temperature-controlled rheometer test. Math via fitting curves nonlinearly from two points isnt necessarily a viable analysis.
Or why not just run M1 0W-30 which is the lightest 30wt oil on the market?
The is quite a difference between 0w-40 weights and a 0w-30, in this case a 5w-30. The PU 5w-30 will be thinner all the way through out and easier to flow than the 0w-40. Even though it is a 0w oil, the viscosity is different for 40 weight oils. There is a difference.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Or why not just run M1 0W-30 which is the lightest 30wt oil on the market?
What is its VI., what is Redline 0W-30's VI, and what is Redline 0W-20's VI?
Or why not just run M1 0W-30 which is the lightest 30wt oil on the market?
What is its VI., what is Redline 0W-30's VI, and what is Redline 0W-20's VI?
SOPUS actually recommends PP 5w30 for the VQ. There are many happy PP/PU/M1 users out there, so you can't go wrong with any of them.
I have run Nissan Ester, PP and M1 AFE in my VQ37 so far.
I have run Nissan Ester, PP and M1 AFE in my VQ37 so far.
Originally Posted By: Coprolite
I have run Nissan Ester, PP and M1 AFE in my VQ37 so far.
I must be a contrarian. I'm using PYB in mine, and have done so for a few OCIs.
I have run Nissan Ester, PP and M1 AFE in my VQ37 so far.
I must be a contrarian. I'm using PYB in mine, and have done so for a few OCIs.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Coprolite
I have run Nissan Ester, PP and M1 AFE in my VQ37 so far.
I must be a contrarian. I'm using PYB in mine, and have done so for a few OCIs.
I don't see how this would make you a contrarian, as you didn't go against anything that I noted in my post.
Originally Posted By: Coprolite
I have run Nissan Ester, PP and M1 AFE in my VQ37 so far.
I must be a contrarian. I'm using PYB in mine, and have done so for a few OCIs.
I don't see how this would make you a contrarian, as you didn't go against anything that I noted in my post.
Originally Posted By: Coprolite
SOPUS actually recommends PP 5w30 for the VQ. There are many happy PP/PU/M1 users out there, so you can't go wrong with any of them.
I have run Nissan Ester, PP and M1 AFE in my VQ37 so far.
I'm surprised they would recommend PP over PU, since PU seems to be their new flagship synthetic and is supposed to keep a new engine "factory clean" and free of sludge. Do you know *why* they recommend PP in the VQ? Link?
I've always been more of an M1 guy, but I've been reading a lot of good things here about PU so I thought I'd give it a try. I'd rather run a 0W-30 in the winter here, but 5W-30 is specced by Nissan and PU should be thin enough at startup (57.5 cSt @40C according to SOPUS).
Did you do a UOA on the M1 0W-30 AFE you ran in your VQ? I've been running it in my old Toyota vans this winter and they really seem to love it. I normally would have gone with it over PP or PU in the VQ app as well, except "Nick R" was saying that PP and PU were giving incredible UOAs in the VQ engines, whereas M1 was showing higher levels of wear metals: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...697#Post2459697
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Mobil 1 5W-30/0W-30 UOAs have rarely ever impressed me, especially with those Nissan VQ engines. some will say that higher wear metal in UOA doesn't mean more wear, but I'd rather not take the chance. Pennzoil Plat and Ultra generally return fantastic UOAs, especially in those Nissan engines.
I was going to try the PU for the first few oil changes and do some UOAs to see how it's doing, even though it's a deviation from the M1 0W-30 AFE that I would normally be inclined to use.
SOPUS actually recommends PP 5w30 for the VQ. There are many happy PP/PU/M1 users out there, so you can't go wrong with any of them.
I have run Nissan Ester, PP and M1 AFE in my VQ37 so far.
I'm surprised they would recommend PP over PU, since PU seems to be their new flagship synthetic and is supposed to keep a new engine "factory clean" and free of sludge. Do you know *why* they recommend PP in the VQ? Link?
I've always been more of an M1 guy, but I've been reading a lot of good things here about PU so I thought I'd give it a try. I'd rather run a 0W-30 in the winter here, but 5W-30 is specced by Nissan and PU should be thin enough at startup (57.5 cSt @40C according to SOPUS).
Did you do a UOA on the M1 0W-30 AFE you ran in your VQ? I've been running it in my old Toyota vans this winter and they really seem to love it. I normally would have gone with it over PP or PU in the VQ app as well, except "Nick R" was saying that PP and PU were giving incredible UOAs in the VQ engines, whereas M1 was showing higher levels of wear metals: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...697#Post2459697
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Mobil 1 5W-30/0W-30 UOAs have rarely ever impressed me, especially with those Nissan VQ engines. some will say that higher wear metal in UOA doesn't mean more wear, but I'd rather not take the chance. Pennzoil Plat and Ultra generally return fantastic UOAs, especially in those Nissan engines.
I was going to try the PU for the first few oil changes and do some UOAs to see how it's doing, even though it's a deviation from the M1 0W-30 AFE that I would normally be inclined to use.
Originally Posted By: Coprolite
Originally Posted By: Garak
I must be a contrarian. I'm using PYB in mine, and have done so for a few OCIs.
I don't see how this would make you a contrarian, as you didn't go against anything that I noted in my post.
I mean that so many people insist upon using synthetics in the things. With the 3750 mile OCI, I'll hold off on any synthetic business until at least after warranty has expired. The Ester Oil is even worse, costwise. My entire sump of PYB costs less than one litre of Ester.
Originally Posted By: Garak
I must be a contrarian. I'm using PYB in mine, and have done so for a few OCIs.
I don't see how this would make you a contrarian, as you didn't go against anything that I noted in my post.
I mean that so many people insist upon using synthetics in the things. With the 3750 mile OCI, I'll hold off on any synthetic business until at least after warranty has expired. The Ester Oil is even worse, costwise. My entire sump of PYB costs less than one litre of Ester.
Short trips-5w-30
Long 0w-40
Optimal GC
or other 0w-30
Long 0w-40
Optimal GC
I have the AFE in it now. UOA wouldn't tell you much, as I have averaged only 2-3k per change. I am on a 6 mo. OCI for warranty purposes.
I have no link for the PP, as it is from the Pennzoil oil picker on their site.
The PP PDS touts the exceptional shear stability in a couple places, while the PU doesn't. As the VQ is known to shear oil, this is the only reason that I can infer. If you read both PDS, let me know if you see something different.
Garak, I'd be running PYB if I were not doing all the changes myself or if I had to pay Canadian prices for synthetic. $30 for a jug and premium filter works for me.
I have no link for the PP, as it is from the Pennzoil oil picker on their site.
The PP PDS touts the exceptional shear stability in a couple places, while the PU doesn't. As the VQ is known to shear oil, this is the only reason that I can infer. If you read both PDS, let me know if you see something different.
Garak, I'd be running PYB if I were not doing all the changes myself or if I had to pay Canadian prices for synthetic. $30 for a jug and premium filter works for me.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
VI for M1 0w30 = 180
I wish it still had a 180 VI (that was the previous SM oil) but the SN version only has a VI of 166.
Even the SM oil's VI fluctuated a lot whenever mobil up-dated their spec's for this oil ranging from 169 to 180. I've never seen so much variation in one grade from Mobil.
I asked Mobil about this and the trite response I got was:
"Viscosity Index is calculated typical data, based on the cSt at 40C and 100C. Those number results can vary."
With a 166 VI AFE 0W-30 will have no cold start advantage over M1's own 5W-30 (VI 172) until well below freezing.
VI for M1 0w30 = 180
I wish it still had a 180 VI (that was the previous SM oil) but the SN version only has a VI of 166.
Even the SM oil's VI fluctuated a lot whenever mobil up-dated their spec's for this oil ranging from 169 to 180. I've never seen so much variation in one grade from Mobil.
I asked Mobil about this and the trite response I got was:
"Viscosity Index is calculated typical data, based on the cSt at 40C and 100C. Those number results can vary."
With a 166 VI AFE 0W-30 will have no cold start advantage over M1's own 5W-30 (VI 172) until well below freezing.
^ If I took the 4 oils in the graph above, and did an actual, real measurement of their viscosities at -10, -5, 0, 5, and 10 degrees F, how close would the extrapolated viscosities from the graph agree with the real, measured viscosities?
Originally Posted By: SubLGT
^ If I took the 4 oils in the graph above, and did an actual, real measurement of their viscosities at -10, -5, 0, 5, and 10 degrees F, how close would the extrapolated viscosities from the graph agree with the real, measured viscosities?
A very good question and the only way to know for sure would be to install an oil pressure gauge which measures "actual" operational viscosity.
But, based on my experience, at -10F I'd rate M1 0W-30 the lightest, followed closely by PU, then RL and the heaviest being M1 0W-40.
^ If I took the 4 oils in the graph above, and did an actual, real measurement of their viscosities at -10, -5, 0, 5, and 10 degrees F, how close would the extrapolated viscosities from the graph agree with the real, measured viscosities?
A very good question and the only way to know for sure would be to install an oil pressure gauge which measures "actual" operational viscosity.
But, based on my experience, at -10F I'd rate M1 0W-30 the lightest, followed closely by PU, then RL and the heaviest being M1 0W-40.
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