M1 0w-30, or M1 0w-20 mixed with M1 0w-40?

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

BTW, AFE 0W-30 is not heavier than M1 5W-30 at any temp' due to it's lower 3.0cP HTHSV.

Only going by kinematic, it is heavier (slightly) at 40C. That's just going by the PDS data. Obviously as the temperature gets lower there's a crossover.

But as you know the KV100 spec' is more about the oil's chemistry when taken in the context of it's HTHSV rating. Case in point, which is heavier M1 SM 0W-40 (KV100 14.3cSt, HTHSV 3.6cP)) or M1 SN 0W-40 (KV100 13.5cSt, HTHSV 3.85cP)? Or to really throw a wrench into the works, M1 R 0W-50 (KV100 17.2cSt, HTHSV 3.8cP?

 

[demarpaint]

Mobil 1 0W30 FTW. I really don't see the need to do any mixing at all when they offer a very good 0W30 right off the shelf.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

BTW, AFE 0W-30 is not heavier than M1 5W-30 at any temp' due to it's lower 3.0cP HTHSV.

Only going by kinematic, it is heavier (slightly) at 40C. That's just going by the PDS data. Obviously as the temperature gets lower there's a crossover.

But as you know the KV100 spec' is more about the oil's chemistry when taken in the context of it's HTHSV rating. Case in point, which is heavier M1 SM 0W-40 (KV100 14.3cSt, HTHSV 3.6cP)) or M1 SN 0W-40 (KV100 13.5cSt, HTHSV 3.85cP)? Or to really throw a wrench into the works, M1 R 0W-50 (KV100 17.2cSt, HTHSV 3.8cP?

Right but my point was more in response to the OP with respect to his statement regarding them being almost the same oil, not speaking specifically as to actual operating viscosity The 0w-30 has a slightly higher KV40 than the 5w-30 and there are numerous other differences that indicate that they aren't really all that similar at all. The MRV is just the icing on the cake in that respect.

 

[CATERHAM]

Except you concluded "The 0W-30 is slightly heavier and actually has a lower VI." My point is it's not a heavier oil at any temperature than M1 5W-30. Additionally, I wouldn't be concluding the two oils "aren't similar at all" based on their spec's, the differences of which are insignificant. Where the real difference lies is in their chemistry; namely the 0W rating or specifically the very low MRV which implies that PAO must be part of the 0W-30 chemistry vs the GP III based M1 5W-30.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

Except you concluded "The 0W-30 is slightly heavier and actually has a lower VI."

Yeah, it has a lower VI because it is heavier (based on KV) at 40C. I didn't make ANY mention of operating viscosity So technically my statement, in the context of KV, is accurate.

Quote:

My point is it's not a heavier oil at any temperature than M1 5W-30.

It is if you use KV.

Quote:

Additionally, I wouldn't be concluding the two oils "aren't similar at all" based on their spec's, the differences of which are insignificant.

Of course you wouldn't. I wouldn't expect you to agree with me on anything. [censored] I'm sure since there's 2ft of snow in my yard you'll say it is sunny and +20C in Ontario Pour point, flash point, SA are all different. And let's just forget the MRV of the 0w-30 all together shall we? Obviously THAT's not significant.......... But wait:

Quote:

Where the real difference lies is in their chemistry; namely the 0W rating or specifically the very low MRV which implies that PAO must be part of the 0W-30 chemistry vs the GP III based M1 5W-30.

DERP! Which means that they, to paraphrase myself, "aren't similar at all" based on the MRV in conjunction with the other differences. Now where's that hammer smashing me in the head emoticon???

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint

Mobil 1 0W30 FTW. I really don't see the need to do any mixing at all when they offer a very good 0W30 right off the shelf.

IF XOM could/would jack up the VI on this , it is what I would use as well, especially for $5.00/quart @ Sino mart!

 

[Triton_330]

WELL... seems that I've created a little quarrel with my questions. lol So it seems that it would be best not to mix the 0w-40 with either of the AFE's since its chemistry is a little more different than theirs. BUT, I was a little intrigued at the suggestion of mixing the two AFE's together - the 0w-20 and 0w-30. If I did that mix, would it turn out to be (categorically defined as) a light 0w-30 or a heavy 0w-20?

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Triton_330

WELL... seems that I've created a little quarrel with my questions. lol So it seems that it would be best not to mix the 0w-40 with either of the AFE's since its chemistry is a little more different than theirs. BUT, I was a little intrigued at the suggestion of mixing the two AFE's together - the 0w-20 and 0w-30. If I did that mix, would it turn out to be (categorically defined as) a light 0w-30 or a heavy 0w-20?

Go ahead and mix the ones you wanted. It's not going to harm anything. Forget the bitog police.

 

[Shannow]

CATERHAM has stated previously that when you mix, you are only guessing cold end performance, while can have a good grasp of VI...and I agree. If you want to KNOW what the cold start performance is, the 0W-30 is the only way for sure.

 

[tig1]

If your engine calls a 20wt then use a 0-20. If 30wt use a 0-30, and if 40wt use a 0-40. Very simple. The engine designers and lube engineers know more about this stuff than most everyone here. Then pick one oil and stick with it for 200-300K and judge the results.

 

[Doog]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Originally Posted By: Doog

Originally Posted By: Triton_330

So, I have to ask, is a mix of the 0w-20 and 0w-40 really any better than the actual 0w-30 (in regards to cold starts)?

No, not unless you like in Antarctica and park outside at night.

Actually, I'd argue the opposite. We know the MRV value for the 0w-30, we have no idea what the MRV or CCS are for the blended product.

which is one reason why I said NO. The chances the OP will see the temps that would make any difference is nil. Plus since the mixed oil really has no published spec makes me say no.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Doog

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Originally Posted By: Doog

Originally Posted By: Triton_330

So, I have to ask, is a mix of the 0w-20 and 0w-40 really any better than the actual 0w-30 (in regards to cold starts)?

No, not unless you like in Antarctica and park outside at night.

Actually, I'd argue the opposite. We know the MRV value for the 0w-30, we have no idea what the MRV or CCS are for the blended product.

which is why I said NO.

The question was whether the blend was better than the M1 0w-30 product for cold starts. You stated "not unless you live in Antarctica". Implying that if you did, the blend would be the better choice. I stated that I'd argue the opposite, since we don't know what the MRV of the blend is, whilst we do for the 0w-30. Odds are that the blend has a higher MRV (worse cold temp performance) than the actual AFE 0w-30 product. Are we on the same page now? If not, please re-read what was quoted.

 

[Triton_330]

Originally Posted By: tig1

If your engine calls a 20wt then use a 0-20. If 30wt use a 0-30, and if 40wt use a 0-40. Very simple...

Well, considering my generation of truck was spec'd for 5w-30 before CAFE, but was backspec'd for 5w-20 after CAFE It's not that simple. This makes for 2 options instead of just one. But too many people have been and so I've come to the conclusion that I can use either one (or, why not both?).

Originally Posted By: tig1

The engine designers and lube engineers know more about this stuff than most everyone here...

Ehhh, I'll give it to you on the lube guys, but it seems to me that since CAFE can come in and make the engine designers do a back spec... when in all reality, a change from 5w-30 to 5w-20 is minimal (in regards to the environmental aspect)... It's not really the manufacturer telling you what is best for the engine, it's CAFE telling you the lowest they think the engine can go. I could care less about .0003% more pollution, I want the best protection for my engine.

Originally Posted By: tig1

Then pick one oil and stick with it for 200-300K and judge the results.

Well gee willikers! That kinda talk sure takes the fun out of it, huh? If I was driving a nicer vehicle that I knew I'd have for a long enough time for me to even reach that kinda miles, then maybe I'd settle. But, for what I drive, and for how long it takes me to put on miles... poppycock... I don't really think it'd make much if any difference.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: dailydriver

Originally Posted By: demarpaint

Mobil 1 0W30 FTW. I really don't see the need to do any mixing at all when they offer a very good 0W30 right off the shelf.

IF XOM could/would jack up the VI on this , it is what I would use as well, especially for $5.00/quart @ Sino mart!

I'm sure they could, they probably have a good reason why the didn't however. It could be more than just the cost aspect too.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Triton_330

Originally Posted By: tig1

If your engine calls a 20wt then use a 0-20. If 30wt use a 0-30, and if 40wt use a 0-40. Very simple...

Well, considering my generation of truck was spec'd for 5w-30 before CAFE, but was backspec'd for 5w-20 after CAFE It's not that simple. This makes for 2 options instead of just one. But too many people have been and so I've come to the conclusion that I can use either one (or, why not both?).

Originally Posted By: tig1

The engine designers and lube engineers know more about this stuff than most everyone here...

Ehhh, I'll give it to you on the lube guys, but it seems to me that since CAFE can come in and make the engine designers do a back spec... when in all reality, a change from 5w-30 to 5w-20 is minimal (in regards to the environmental aspect)... It's not really the manufacturer telling you what is best for the engine, it's CAFE telling you the lowest they think the engine can go. I could care less about .0003% more pollution, I want the best protection for my engine.

Originally Posted By: tig1

Then pick one oil and stick with it for 200-300K and judge the results.

Well gee willikers! That kinda talk sure takes the fun out of it, huh? If I was driving a nicer vehicle that I knew I'd have for a long enough time for me to even reach that kinda miles, then maybe I'd settle. But, for what I drive, and for how long it takes me to put on miles... poppycock... I don't really think it'd make much if any difference.

Well then I really don't see the point in the thread you started. Just flip a coin, draw straws.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Triton_330

Ehhh, I'll give it to you on the lube guys, but it seems to me that since CAFE can come in and make the engine designers do a back spec... when in all reality, a change from 5w-30 to 5w-20 is minimal (in regards to the environmental aspect)... It's not really the manufacturer telling you what is best for the engine, it's CAFE telling you the lowest they think the engine can go. I could care less about .0003% more pollution, I want the best protection for my engine.

We need to clear up some misconceptions here. CAFE didn't make anybody choose certain viscosities. European manufacturers still use 30 and 40 grades. GM, Ford, Nissan, and the Koreans still use 30 grades (or heavier). Lower viscosity oils are one way to improve fuel economy numbers. But, CAFE is specifying low viscosity oils about as much as they are specifying aero headlights and 7 speed automatic transmissions.

 

[Shannow]

Well put Garak.

 

[Triton_330]

tig1 - the point of the thread was exactly what my original post asked: Is M1 0w-30 AFE better or worse at cold start ups than a mix of the 0w-20 AFE and 0w-40? Let me help you:

Originally Posted By: Triton_330

So, I have to ask, is a mix of the 0w-20 and 0w-40 really any better than the actual 0w-30 (in regards to cold starts)? And also, how do the add packs of those 3 oils compare to each other?

Garak - I know what you mean, and you are right... but I don't think you interpreted what I said earlier in the way I had intended. Let me help you:

Originally Posted By: Triton_330

... I want the best protection for my engine.

Which, goes back, yet again, to my OP:

Originally Posted By: Triton_330

...(in regards to cold starts)...

It's okay though. I probably didn't ask my question clearly enough

 

[Shannow]

The only blend that you KNOW will give you the cold start performance is the one that is out of the bottle un-messed with...if you need 0W-30, and have it available, it's a surer thing than guessing that a blend will do it.

 

[tig1]

Originally Posted By: Triton_330

tig1 - the point of the thread was exactly what my original post asked: Is M1 0w-30 AFE better or worse at cold start ups than a mix of the 0w-20 AFE and 0w-40? Let me help you:

Originally Posted By: Triton_330

So, I have to ask, is a mix of the 0w-20 and 0w-40 really any better than the actual 0w-30 (in regards to cold starts)? And also, how do the add packs of those 3 oils compare to each other?

Garak - I know what you mean, and you are right... but I don't think you interpreted what I said earlier in the way I had intended. Let me help you:

Originally Posted By: Triton_330

... I want the best protection for my engine.

Which, goes back, yet again, to my OP:

Originally Posted By: Triton_330

...(in regards to cold starts)...

It's okay though. I probably didn't ask my question clearly enough

Use what the oil fill cap says.