M1 0w-30, or M1 0w-20 mixed with M1 0w-40?

[Triton_330]

It seems that there are many comments throughout the threads that whenever someone wants to use M1 0w-30, they are told to mix half M1 0w-20 and half M1 0w-40. I have learned that the reason for this is because, in comparison to M1 5w-30, the 0w-30 is only very slightly different, being just a little bit lower in viscosity as to give it a small advantage for cold starts. So, I have to ask, is a mix of the 0w-20 and 0w-40 really any better than the actual 0w-30 (in regards to cold starts)? And also, how do the add packs of those 3 oils compare to each other? EDIT: I went ahead and added these from the PDS of each one for you to use in explaining, but I am still learning when it comes to all these numbers, so when you use them, could you explain them? Thanks: Mobil 1 0W-20 AFE SAE Grade 0W-20 Viscosity, @ 100ºC, cSt (ASTM D445) 8.7 Viscosity, @ 40ºC, cSt (ASTM D445) 44.8 Viscosity Index 173 Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874) 0.8 HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC (ASTM D4683) 2.7 Phosphorous (ASTM D4951) 0.065 Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92) 224 Total Base Number (ASTM D2896) 8.8 MRV @ -40ºC (ASTM D4684) 9200 Density @15.6ºC g/ml (ASTM D4052) 0.841 Mobil 1 0W-30 AFE SAE Grade 0W-30 Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt (ASTM D445) 10.9 Viscosity, @ 40ºC, cSt (ASTM D445) 62.9 Viscosity Index 166 Phosphorous (ASTM D4951) 0.065 Sulfated Ash, wt%, (ASTM D874) 0.9 HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC (ASTM D4683) 3.0 Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92) 226 Pour Point, ºC (ASTM D97) -50 Total Base Number (ASTM D2896) 9.1 MRV @ -40 ºC (ASTM D4684) 13,250 Density @15.6 ºC, g/ml (ASTM D4052) 0.842 Mobil 1 0W-40 Viscosity, cSt (ASTM D445) @ 40º C 75 @ 100º C 13.5 Viscosity Index 185 MRV at -40ºC, cP (ASTM D4684) 31,000 HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC, (ASTM D4683) 3.8 Total Base Number (ASTM D2896) 11.8 Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874) 1.3 Phosphorous, wt% (ASTM D4981) 0.1 Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92) 230 Density @15.6 ºC, g/ml (ASTM D4052) 0.85

 

[Doog]

Originally Posted By: Triton_330

So, I have to ask, is a mix of the 0w-20 and 0w-40 really any better than the actual 0w-30 (in regards to cold starts)?

No, not unless you like in Antarctica and park outside at night.

 

[Phishin]

I drive a 2010 Accord that specs 0w20. But I give her 0w30. And I don't use M1 0w30. I use a 2:1 mix of the M1 0w20AFE and 0w40. I'm convinced that the 0w20 would give a slight increase in MPG's...but it also yields higher aluminum readings in Honda 2.4L engines. So, I go with a 30 weight. And as far as the mix goes....everyone (including me), holds M1 0w40 in such high regards. It is outstanding in every way. So, if I can pour a little bit of that into my engine, I THINK I'm doing her a favor vs. just using M1 0w30AFE. When I do an oil change, my Accords get 1.4 quart of 0w40 and 2.8 quarts of 0w20

 

[buster]

No. 0w20/30 use different chemistry than the 0w40 too so I would not mix them. You can, but you're better off sticking to one or the other IMO.

 

[lubedude13]

I use Amsoil 0w20 in several Hondas with normal aluminum readings

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Doog

Originally Posted By: Triton_330

So, I have to ask, is a mix of the 0w-20 and 0w-40 really any better than the actual 0w-30 (in regards to cold starts)?

No, not unless you like in Antarctica and park outside at night.

Actually, I'd argue the opposite. We know the MRV value for the 0w-30, we have no idea what the MRV or CCS are for the blended product.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Triton_330

I have learned that the reason for this is because, in comparison to M1 5w-30, the 0w-30 is only very slightly different, being just a little bit lower in viscosity as to give it a small advantage for cold starts.

Code:

Mobil 1 5W-30	 
SAE Grade	                                5W-30
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt (ASTM D445)	        11.0
Viscosity, @ 40ºC, cSt  (ASTM D445)	        61.7
Viscosity Index	                                172
Sulfated Ash, wt% (ASTM D874)	                0.8
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC (ASTM D4683)	3.1
Pour Point, ºC (ASTM D97)	                -42
Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92)	                230
Density @15.6 ºC, kg/l (ASTM D4052)	        0.855

Code:

Mobil 1 0W-30 AFE	 
SAE Grade	                                0W-30
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt (ASTM D445)	        10.9
Viscosity, @ 40ºC, cSt  (ASTM D445)	        62.9
Viscosity Index	                                166
Phosphorous (ASTM D4951)	                0.065
Sulfated Ash, wt%, (ASTM D874)	                0.9
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC (ASTM D4683)	3.0
Flash Point, ºC (ASTM D92)	                226
Pour Point, ºC (ASTM D97)	                -50
Total Base Number (ASTM D2896)	                9.1
MRV @ -40 ºC (ASTM D4684)	                13,250
Density @15.6 ºC, g/ml (ASTM D4052)	        0.842

As you can see, the 5w-30 and the 0w-30 aren't really that similar. The 0w-30 is slightly heavier and actually has a lower VI. They have different flash points, different SA content.....etc. But note that it has a much lower pour point and an MRV of only 13,250cP at -40C, meaning its cold performance is EXCEPTIONAL. It does not thicken all that much at extremely low temperatures and is probably well below the CCS limit @ -35C.

 

[Phishin]

Originally Posted By: lubedude13

I use Amsoil 0w20 in several Hondas with normal aluminum readings

Yep, I'm sure you get quite normal aluminum readings...."average" to all the other data collected from others using 0w20 or 5w20 as well. But I think the 30 weight users have lower aluminum numbers. Just sayin

 

[Triton_330]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

As you can see, the 5w-30 and the 0w-30 aren't really that similar. The 0w-30 is slightly heavier and actually has a lower VI. They have different flash points, different SA content.....etc. But note that it has a much lower pour point and an MRV of only 13,250cP at -40C, meaning its cold performance is EXCEPTIONAL. It does not thicken all that much at extremely low temperatures and is probably well below the CCS limit @ -35C.

Thank you! This is what I was looking for . So, basically what that means is that the 0w-30 will be better for cold starts, correct? I frequently see sub zero temps in the winter, like -10*F with windchills of even -25*F. Not that I'm about to change my oil in the middle of winter, haha, but I will keep this in mind for next winter. My truck always starts fine with the Kendall GT1 5w-30 I have in it now, but the oil pressure is not at all where I'd like it to be. It takes too long for my liking to warm up and finally start flowing better so that the oil pressure is at a better level. Right now I'm just glad that it does start. Having a good battery (with a good charge) is really important in the cold as well. FWIW, I love Interstate batteries.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Triton_330

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

As you can see, the 5w-30 and the 0w-30 aren't really that similar. The 0w-30 is slightly heavier and actually has a lower VI. They have different flash points, different SA content.....etc. But note that it has a much lower pour point and an MRV of only 13,250cP at -40C, meaning its cold performance is EXCEPTIONAL. It does not thicken all that much at extremely low temperatures and is probably well below the CCS limit @ -35C.

Thank you! This is what I was looking for . So, basically what that means is that the 0w-30 will be better for cold starts, correct? I frequently see sub zero temps in the winter, like -10*F with windchills of even -25*F. Not that I'm about to change my oil in the middle of winter, haha, but I will keep this in mind for next winter. My truck always starts fine with the Kendall GT1 5w-30 I have in it now, but the oil pressure is not at all where I'd like it to be. It takes too long for my liking to warm up and finally start flowing better so that the oil pressure is at a better level. Right now I'm just glad that it does start. Having a good battery (with a good charge) is really important in the cold as well. FWIW, I love Interstate batteries.

Yes, I would argue that the 0w-30 AFE product is better at those temperatures. I only recently ran out of the 0w-30 (currently running PU 5w-30) but have arranged to get a fair bit more of it from somebody who used to be a member on here and recently picked some up in the states. It is my "favourite" oil in the Expedition as there's zero consumption over a 10K OCI (compared to AZO, which the truck likes to eliminate for some reason) and with its exceptional cold-flow characteristics, it makes it a given to use in a Canadian winter.

 

[thereed]

How do the add packs compare? I would assume that the AFE's would use the same add pack and the 40 would have a different one. Does anyone know the answer to this?

 

[kschachn]

I love it when people do drive-by posts like this. "I think" and "Just sayin". Got anything, anything to back that up with?

Originally Posted By: Phishin

Yep, I'm sure you get quite normal aluminum readings...."average" to all the other data collected from others using 0w20 or 5w20 as well. But I think the 30 weight users have lower aluminum numbers. Just sayin

 

[dparm]

I'd just stick with the 0w30. The 0w40's pumpability in extreme cold is only mediocre, though that's largely irrelevant if you don't live up near the Arctic Circle.

 

[Triton_330]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Originally Posted By: Triton_330

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

As you can see, the 5w-30 and the 0w-30 aren't really that similar. The 0w-30 is slightly heavier and actually has a lower VI. They have different flash points, different SA content.....etc. But note that it has a much lower pour point and an MRV of only 13,250cP at -40C, meaning its cold performance is EXCEPTIONAL. It does not thicken all that much at extremely low temperatures and is probably well below the CCS limit @ -35C.

Thank you! This is what I was looking for . So, basically what that means is that the 0w-30 will be better for cold starts, correct? I frequently see sub zero temps in the winter, like -10*F with windchills of even -25*F. Not that I'm about to change my oil in the middle of winter, haha, but I will keep this in mind for next winter. My truck always starts fine with the Kendall GT1 5w-30 I have in it now, but the oil pressure is not at all where I'd like it to be. It takes too long for my liking to warm up and finally start flowing better so that the oil pressure is at a better level. Right now I'm just glad that it does start. Having a good battery (with a good charge) is really important in the cold as well. FWIW, I love Interstate batteries.

Yes, I would argue that the 0w-30 AFE product is better at those temperatures. I only recently ran out of the 0w-30 (currently running PU 5w-30) but have arranged to get a fair bit more of it from somebody who used to be a member on here and recently picked some up in the states. It is my "favourite" oil in the Expedition as there's zero consumption over a 10K OCI (compared to AZO, which the truck likes to eliminate for some reason) and with its exceptional cold-flow characteristics, it makes it a given to use in a Canadian winter.

Thanks for the help. And you know what's funny, I bet your expedition has the same engine as my F-150! So knowing that it worked well in your Triton, makes me feel even better about possibly using it for my truck in the future. Right now, though, I have a bit of a stash of other oils that I had intended on using, so once I get through with them, I will most likely go and buy some M1 0w-30 for my truck. I usually change my oil every 6 months or 4k miles. I know that many go 10k or more on synthetics, but I drive with a heavy foot alot, and also take quite a few dirt/gravel (dusty) roads; the truck sees a mix of, oh, I'd say 40% highway, 40% city, and 20% country (dusty) road driving.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Triton_330

Thanks for the help. And you know what's funny, I bet your expedition has the same engine as my F-150! So knowing that it worked well in your Triton, makes me feel even better about possibly using it for my truck in the future. Right now, though, I have a bit of a stash of other oils that I had intended on using, so once I get through with them, I will most likely go and buy some M1 0w-30 for my truck. I usually change my oil every 6 months or 4k miles. I know that many go 10k or more on synthetics, but I drive with a heavy foot alot, and also take quite a few dirt/gravel (dusty) roads; the truck sees a mix of, oh, I'd say 40% highway, 40% city, and 20% country (dusty) road driving.

You are quite welcome. Yes, we have the same engine: 5.4L 2V SOHC. Mine has 272,000Km on it (170,000 miles). Had close to half that when we bought it. Since owning it the vehicle has had a huge variety of oils in it: M1 5w-20 M1 0w-30 M1 5w-40 M1 0w-40 PC 0w-40 PC 0w-30 RL 5w-30 AM 0w-30 PU 5w-30 That, along with a huge list of different filters ranging from AMSOIL's EaO, the Fleetguard Stratapore, PureONE, Mobil 1....etc. Ultimately the long-term combo will continue to be M1 0w-30 w/Motorcraft FL-820S. That combo gives the least chatter on start-up regardless of temperature and also results in no oil consumption over a 10K OCI. The only reason I haven't run it exclusively is availability: We don't get it in Canada so I have to get it from the USA and I'm currently out of it Ultimately none of the oils appeared to have any sort of dramatic effect on fuel economy. Unless of course you ask my wife who will argue up and down that the Redline 5w-30 killed the gas mileage, but hand measured there was only noise between them all. The 5.4L in a 6,000+lb SUV that is spinning both driveshafts all the time doesn't seem to care about what is in the sump and I'd argue that's primarily due to all of that weight. Perhaps in a lighter vehicle like a vic, you'd notice a difference but not in the Expedition.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Originally Posted By: Doog

Originally Posted By: Triton_330

So, I have to ask, is a mix of the 0w-20 and 0w-40 really any better than the actual 0w-30 (in regards to cold starts)?

No, not unless you like in Antarctica and park outside at night.

Actually, I'd argue the opposite. We know the MRV value for the 0w-30, we have no idea what the MRV or CCS are for the blended product.

+1x10^6... the blend is touted as having a superior VI to the 0W-30, but the actual colt temperature performance, and the interaction of the ads that achieve that in either of the blend oils is entirely unknown. If you have a need for 0W-30, and actually HAVE 0W-30 available, that's the one.

 

[901Memphis]

Caterham blend.

 

[jamesyarbrough]

Caterham uses TGMO 0w20

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis

Caterham blend.

Yes a TGMO 0W-20/M1 0W-40 blend would be an option but if the OP is seeing some really cold temp's in his part of Illinois I'd suggest AFE 0W-20, AFE 0W-30 or a blend of the two. Both these oils have exception MRV spec's, while M1 SN 0W-40 does not. If a 5W-20 was spec'd or back spec'd for his '01 F150 (or better still he has an oil pressure gauge) then running AFE 0W-20 straight could be the ideal choice. BTW, AFE 0W-30 is not heavier than M1 5W-30 at any temp' due to it's lower 3.0cP HTHSV.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

BTW, AFE 0W-30 is not heavier than M1 5W-30 at any temp' due to it's lower 3.0cP HTHSV.

Only going by kinematic, it is heavier (slightly) at 40C. That's just going by the PDS data. Obviously as the temperature gets lower there's a crossover.