M1 0W-20 ESP Tracer?

[Owen Lucas]

Nice...so you can just use LM Molygen 5W40 without warranty worry then..hahahahahaah....j/k

If the dye in the oil is the same as in Molygen, then there shouldn't be an warranty issue? Not sure if you are serious or not, you can buy the overpriced Molygen and then add it to whatever oil you want and the service center won't know the difference.

All VW 508.00/509.00 oils have the dye and Zirconium tracer. I’ll use it until my Tiguan is out of warranty.
FCP Euro has the best price on oil change kits. Liqui Moly Top Tech 6200 is what you get from them.

How is zirconium used as a tracer? How does this work if you don't mind me asking?

 

[shortyb]

How is zirconium used as a tracer? How does this work if you don't mind me asking?

Zirconium is added to low viscosity/fuel efficient oils (required in VW 508.00) primarily to ensure they are not used in a backward fashion, ie; VW 508.00 oil used in a VW502.00 speced engine, and cause damage since the 502.00 engine isn't designed for such a low viscosity oil. Zirconium is not a naturally occurring element found in UOAs and thus makes it useful as a "tracer" for inspection analysis. Also, Chevron has mentioned it's use (and other similar metals such as vanadium) as an additive to prevent LSPI, albeit in small amounts.

Now, the question is will any manufacturer use it as a tracer to verify proper oil use? Depends. How voracious will they be in going after a claim, especially in single loss cases, to drag out an investigation just to save the cost of an engine replacement? Again depends on several factors, one of the most important being owner loyalty. How apt is someone to purchase another vehicle from the same manufacturer, or much less recommend it to friends/family, if they get a bad taste in their mouth from a denied claim? Most won't take the risk and eat the cost as a price for keeping people happy. I personally have never heard of any manufacturer going to that extent to validate or deny a claim based on which oil was used. I don't say it wouldn't ever happen, but depending on your level of suspicion, it's use during warranty period is up to you.

 

[kschachn]

Zirconium is added to low viscosity/fuel efficient oils (required in VW 508.00) primarily to ensure they are not used in a backward fashion, ie; VW 508.00 oil used in a VW502.00 speced engine, and cause damage since the 502.00 engine isn't designed for such a low viscosity oil. Zirconium is not a naturally occurring element found in UOAs and thus makes it useful as a "tracer" for inspection analysis. Also, Chevron has mentioned it's use (and other similar metals such as vanadium) as an additive to prevent LSPI, albeit in small amounts.

Now, the question is will any manufacturer use it as a tracer to verify proper oil use? Depends. How voracious will they be in going after a claim, especially in single loss cases, to drag out an investigation just to save the cost of an engine replacement? Again depends on several factors, one of the most important being owner loyalty. How apt is someone to purchase another vehicle from the same manufacturer, or much less recommend it to friends/family, if they get a bad taste in their mouth from a denied claim? Most won't take the risk and eat the cost as a price for keeping people happy. I personally have never heard of any manufacturer going to that extent to validate or deny a claim based on which oil was used. I don't say it wouldn't ever happen, but depending on your level of suspicion, it's use during warranty period is up to you.

Yes VW made that clear when 508 00 came out, no where did they mention the opposite. Speculation that it is ensure its use in 508 00 approved vehicles is a construct of individuals on this site. VW never stated any such thing.

 

[GregRobsn]

"Bro, they totally test it anytime you bring in your car for service. The oil pump is specially made for it so if you run 5W40 Liquimoly/the Lord's oil they will know as it saves a code they see when they scan it. I hear you get TD1'd for it bro. Bro." - MK7 bro

 

[GregRobsn]

Not really, especially if it has some miles on it. Dye is added to prevent service techs from putting this oil it into engines that aren't speced for a 20wt. It's not to primarily ensure that it is put it in engines that spec it for warranty purposes, but many are conspiracy theorists . The zirconium is for that .

Correct, because VW 508 0W-20 is not Backwords Compatable and should not br used in an engine not specifically calling for its use, even though the engine calls for a 0W-20 oil. According to Mobil 1 and Liquid Moly " It may not provide adequate lubrication."

 

[GregRobsn]

"Bro, they totally test it anytime you bring in your car for service. The oil pump is specially made for it so if you run 5W40 Liquimoly/the Lord's oil they will know as it saves a code they see when they scan it. I hear you get TD1'd for it bro. Bro." - MK7 bro

 

[bigjl]

Out of curiosity when people say they ran a different spec oil and it didn’t hurt anything

How do they know?

Since any lubricant related issue is unlikely to show up for many thousands of miles, running low on oil and driving till the engine seizes being an obvious exception

 

[ArthurArgentum]

Yes VW made that clear when 508 00 came out, no where did they mention the opposite. Speculation that it is ensure its use in 508 00 approved vehicles is a construct of individuals on this site. VW never stated any such thing.

I previously mentioned that it appears that the openly published 50800 approval requirements are non-existent. The notion of a zirconium marker being mandatory in such oils is more likely founded on speculation and rumors stemming from potential leaks by insiders or the discovery of a small amount of zirconium in certain formulations during ICP research. Nevertheless, I concur that without access to the official VW requirements, our understanding remains speculative and reliant on supposed leaks and educated guesses. It's also intriguing to note that VW's official list includes 3-4 oils (e.g. Grantt 8000 Fully Synthetic and Sinopec Justar J700F, etc), which are Asian oils formulated based on known ILSAC packages but are approved by VW under the 50800 standard.

 

[kschachn]

Out of curiosity when people say they ran a different spec oil and it didn’t hurt anything

How do they know?

Since any lubricant related issue is unlikely to show up for many thousands of miles, running low on oil and driving till the engine seizes being an obvious exception

Because of physics.

 

[kschachn]

Correct, because VW 508 0W-20 is not Backwords Compatable and should not br used in an engine not specifically calling for its use, even though the engine calls for a 0W-20 oil. According to Mobil 1 and Liquid Moly " It may not provide adequate lubrication."

There are no other VW approvals that are a 20-grade. You could certainly use it in another make based on whatever license the oil holds. For example, Mobil 1 ESP 0W-20 is also API SP, GM dexosD and ACEA C5. Given its somewhat higher HT/HS it would be a good alternative for fuel-diluting GDI engines where the owner is fearful of violating their new-car warranty.

 

[Thumper3]

Zirconium is added to low viscosity/fuel efficient oils (required in VW 508.00) primarily to ensure they are not used in a backward fashion, ie; VW 508.00 oil used in a VW502.00 speced engine, and cause damage since the 502.00 engine isn't designed for such a low viscosity oil.

So.....VW made an unnecessary change to an oil adding an expensive material SPECIFICALLY to destroy old engines if anyone was foolish enough to put it in them? Is that what you are saying or am I misunderstanding you? Cause no offense, but that sounds ridiculous. Not only from a "Say what?" perspective but from a How is that going to stop people putting it in their cars? Putting 0w20 in an older engine will certainly destroy it on it's own, so they wanted to speed up the damage and make sure that person was punished? I mean, it's just insane.

I am currently running HPLs No-VII 5w30 in my Allroad after discussing it with HPL, I plan to tune the engine and drive my cars spiritedly like they should be so additional protection is needed. I may switch to the normal Euro 5w30 since it has the 504 spec which Audi says is allowable if needed. But once I tune it it's TD1 anyway so why not worry more about proper protection for the engine than damaging the engine and having a warranty to fix it? lol


Interesting note on the 'mileage efficient' oil.

2023 A4 AllroadEPA MPA Rating

Running the HPL No-VII 5w30 on my 27 mile commute each way 75% hwy/25% city through the rolling hills of rural MO (so not a flat straight highway) I got 32.4 MPG last week. And I drive in manual mode so the start stop is deactivated as well and run 70MPH on the highway.

Out of curiosity when people say they ran a different spec oil and it didn’t hurt anything

How do they know?

Since any lubricant related issue is unlikely to show up for many thousands of miles, running low on oil and driving till the engine seizes being an obvious exception

Same way people claim they ran their oil for 25k miles and their engines didn't explode so obviously 25k OCIs are fine for 300k miles I guess.

Because of physics.

Yes, and this. Because of physics.

 

[kschachn]

If the tracer is even in there as a “tracer” then yes VW was concerned that a low HT/HS oil might be used in an engine that could be damaged. Again it is not back-specified to any engine that does not list the approval.

People keep trying but physics still wins.

 

[Thumper3]

If the tracer is even in there as a “tracer” then yes VW was concerned that a low HT/HS oil might be used in an engine that could be damaged. Again it is not back-specified to any engine that does not list the approval.

People keep trying but physics still wins.

So the tracer is there.....so that VW can tell if someone put 508 in a 502 car so they could void the warranty on the 502 car......which any car using 502 is more than a few years out of warranty because it is an older spec? It's really hard to keep up with all the conspiracy theories on this new spec LMAO I really don't think VW is spending millions of dollars and designing an oil spec out of concern for cars around 10 years old and older.

It seems MUCH more likely that the tracer is there to assist the dealer techs in finding oil leaks, much as the tracer that was put in Castrol Professional when VW/Audi were specing that in the 504. The 504 had no requirement for a tracer and you could buy regular Castrol 504/507 yet the dealer supplied Professional bottles had tracer in it for leak detection for their techs.

 

[shortyb]

So the tracer is there.....so that VW can tell if someone put 508 in a 502 car so they could void the warranty on the 502 car......which any car using 502 is more than a few years out of warranty because it is an older spec? It's really hard to keep up with all the conspiracy theories on this new spec LMAO I really don't think VW is spending millions of dollars and designing an oil spec out of concern for cars around 10 years old and older.

It seems MUCH more likely that the tracer is there to assist the dealer techs in finding oil leaks, much as the tracer that was put in Castrol Professional when VW/Audi were specing that in the 504. The 504 had no requirement for a tracer and you could buy regular Castrol 504/507 yet the dealer supplied Professional bottles had tracer in it for leak detection for their techs.

Could be as no one has been able to confirm the "tracer" is used as such. It IS in there though as its shown in several UOAs albeit it very small amounts, along the single digit ppm levels. I do know that the techs use the added dye to ensure that the proper oil is put in the engine from a backward compatible standpoint, ie; no 508 in an older 502/504 application. Surprisingly (or maybe not) some techs at my local dealer have done that by mistake by grabbing the wrong oil or the that the dispenser was set for 508 oil when should have dispensed 502/504. Oil is dumped when discovered and correct oil then used. Happens. Also happens that some folks think this "fuel efficient" oil will give fuel saving results in older engines. It does.......for a little while .

 

[Thumper3]

Also happens that some folks think this "fuel efficient" oil will give fuel saving results in older engines. It does.......for a little while .

Hey you save a lot of fuel when the car won't run. LOL

 

[bigjl]

If the tracer is even in there as a “tracer” then yes VW was concerned that a low HT/HS oil might be used in an engine that could be damaged. Again it is not back-specified to any engine that does not list the approval.

People keep trying but physics still wins.

Yawn

 

[bigjl]

So the tracer is there.....so that VW can tell if someone put 508 in a 502 car so they could void the warranty on the 502 car......which any car using 502 is more than a few years out of warranty because it is an older spec? It's really hard to keep up with all the conspiracy theories on this new spec LMAO I really don't think VW is spending millions of dollars and designing an oil spec out of concern for cars around 10 years old and older.

It seems MUCH more likely that the tracer is there to assist the dealer techs in finding oil leaks, much as the tracer that was put in Castrol Professional when VW/Audi were specing that in the 504. The 504 had no requirement for a tracer and you could buy regular Castrol 504/507 yet the dealer supplied Professional bottles had tracer in it for leak detection for their techs.

Visually the green colour of the oil isn’t really obvious after a few hundred miles.

They can sample the oil and find out if the correct oil was used though.

Not sure why anybody would buy an expensive Audi then want to save £20 on 5 litres of oil by putting in the wrong oil.

It’s probably physics……

 

[kschachn]

This new engines has particularities that need that 0w20
508/509 spec, plastic connecting rod bushings, smaller segments, micropores on the cylinder walls, vane oil pump, sliders on the camshafts, etc….. (sorry for my english, its not my primary language)

Here we go again with this nonsense. What you’re posting is a complete fabrication and you have no evidence to support this. You need to stop posting falsehoods.

Other oils are recommended for this exact same engine in other areas. You have absolutely no idea what you were talking about.

 

[chris719]

So the tracer is there.....so that VW can tell if someone put 508 in a 502 car so they could void the warranty on the 502 car......which any car using 502 is more than a few years out of warranty because it is an older spec? It's really hard to keep up with all the conspiracy theories on this new spec LMAO I really don't think VW is spending millions of dollars and designing an oil spec out of concern for cars around 10 years old and older.

It seems MUCH more likely that the tracer is there to assist the dealer techs in finding oil leaks, much as the tracer that was put in Castrol Professional when VW/Audi were specing that in the 504. The 504 had no requirement for a tracer and you could buy regular Castrol 504/507 yet the dealer supplied Professional bottles had tracer in it for leak detection for their techs.

Is this UV reactive or something? Now that C40 GT oils have this "tracer", it's certainly not about low visc.

 

[tbm5690]

Is this UV reactive or something? Now that C40 GT oils have this "tracer", it's certainly not about low visc.

No, just a visible dye.