M1 0W/20 6900mi, '05 Accord Hybrid

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Total Mi 14458 7554 3785

Aluminum 5 6 8

Chromium 1 2 2

Iron 14 14 25

Copper 64 64 179

Lead 1 1 4

Tin 0 1 1

Moly 81 182 524

Nickel 0 0 1

Mangan. 2 2 7

Silver 0 0 0

Titanium 0 0 0

Potass. 0 1 4

Boron 96 41 86

Silicon 14 20 56

Sodium 32 162 9

Calcium 2411 1588 1567

Magnes. 13 10 6

Phosp. 768 676 725

Zinc 917 819 802

Barium 0 2 8



TBN = 4.5

Visc: 54.2

Fuel < 0.5

Antifreeze: " ? "

Water: 0.0

Insolubles: 0.4


This is the 3rd UOA on this car, all by Blackstone.
1st was Honda fact. fill 0W/20, 2nd was M1 0W/20 per dealer; they supplied as 1st free OC, and state they use M1 for the hybrid cars, post signage stating such, and charge extra . Blackstone said it looked more like Mobil 5000, btw.

This 3rd one *is* M1 0W/20, because I supplied it {it also looks similar to other UOAs I've seen here w/ this brand / visc}.

Filter used on all 3 was OEM Honda {no, I don't know if Toyo Roki or Filtech / Fram}. I'm going to start bringing them PureOne filters; those seem to be a good choice, from what I see. I'm planning on 7500 change intervals, at least until I'm out of base warranty, so I'm not looking for bypass filtration, and M1 filter would be overkill for this type of interval.

Some notes of interest about this engine, for those interested...
It's the venerable 3.0L J30, with a few new twists.
- Variable Cylinder Management, which shuts down fuel to the rear cylinder bank, and closes the intake / exhaust valves during cruise / decel. A big portion of the highway mileage improvement.
- An autostop system that shuts down the drivetrain when the car comes to a stop. Thus, no idling. I'd welcome some debate about whether this constitutes 'severe service', given the starting / stopping of the engine. My TBN's are looking pretty good, though - dunno if that would be a good indicator or not. Need some help interpreting shear, if it can be discerned.
- A 16 kW electric motor sandwiched between the engine / 5AT. In this car {and especially the way I drive it}, it's mostly used for helping keep the engine in that I3 mode longer. It also takes the place of the gear reduction starter {still there for backup}, and spins up the engine quite smoothly at 800rpm - no cranking.

Other differences between this car and the normal V6 - the torque converter is programmed to engage earlier and hold longer, to further assist VCM, and the 5AT is geared slightly taller, which helps provide a 45mph cruising speed at 1100rpm - most of the time, I'm no higher than that speed, as I drive mostly secondary highway, 30-50mph. I drive for mileage {35-38mpg work commute over 21mi, 42-45 on the superslab {at 65mph or less}, best trip of 49.1 mpg over 745mi IL<>OH {yes, 1 tank
smile.gif
Needless to say, I'm not thraahing this motor very much at all {I did a couple of runs during initial break-in, but other than that, I think I've engaged WOT < 5 times total over 16K miles}.

This latest interval was during the hottest part of the summer. Original service date 1/8/05, in 0F temps.

My prior car, which was a '01 Accord with the J30, I ran M1 5W/30, because I was afraid that a -20 {mfg spec} wouldn't protect well enough in the hot summer temps, after seeing a visc / temp chart. But I heeded advice for max mileage with this one, and am going with 5W/20 {can't find 0W/20 any longer, and if I could, I'd dose up w/ the Synpower for extra moly}. I've seen the advice to stay away from additives with API/SM formulations.
Gas mileage and the drain interval are why I'm using the synoil - I don't know that I'd trust a dino for 7500mi, which is a convenient maintenance interval for me. I also drained the ATF at this change, and am sending that in to Blackstone; will post those results in the ATF section when I get them.


Comments / questions welcomed. Thanks for reading, if you got this far
grin.gif


[ August 26, 2005, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]
 
This is a fine report for this engine. The oil is still 20-weight, which is unusual for M1 0w-20; it usually thickens to 30-weight over a 7k interval.

I didn't realize Honda was doing all the fancy tricks with shutting down cylinders and valves for this hybrid. Your gas mileage is amazing!

Don't be afraid to try a dino oil in the summertime. They work very well. I'd stay with a synthetic 0w-20 for an IL winter. BTW, M1's new 5w-20 is still a 0w-20.
 
Sorry - I misstated the factory fill visc. - it's 5W-20, not 0W-
 
Looks good, you shouldn't have any problems with this change interval. Still plenty life left. Cool car. Thinking of Civic Hybrid as my next car, but not for a while.
BTW, what is super slab? Nothing super about the roads in IL.
 
superslab = superhighway; ie, Interstate

If you're thinking about Civic Hybrid, take a look at the '06 coming out (s/b around November). Much improved over the current version, and there's even a non-gasoline propulsion mode this time around. I'm thinking about getting one myself
smile.gif
 
quote:

Originally posted by fuel tanker man:
What's up with the copper mining?
Dan


Check other Honda V6 UOAs, you'll find that they have a tendency to spit out lots of Cu; it'll go down. That motor, I mean engine, isn't broken in yet.
 
quote:

Originally posted by fuel tanker man:
The sodium in the second UOA would indeed look like Mobil 5000.

Dan


Here are the results of a M1 5W-20 VOA and a Exxon 5W-20 VOA

code:

M1 5W-20 Exxon 5W-20

Wearcheck Blackstone

--

Iron ........0.8 ........1

Lead ........0.5 ........0

Molybdenum ..88 ......109

Manganese ....12 ........0

Potassium ....18 ........1

Boron ........75 .......65

Silicon .....9.8 ........2

Sodium ......5.5 ......249

Calcium ....2299 .....1237

Magnesium ....12 ........3

Phosphorus ..689 ......520

Zinc ........785 ......620


It's not good enough evidence to stand up in court but based on the sodium and calcium numbers I'm ready to convict the stealership of padding their profit margin with the first oil change. At least it didn't cost you much to find out how trustworthy they are.

Best to keep providing your own oil.
 
49.1MPG is something to be proud of in a V6! Looks like Honda has another great product here! The Silicon is a bit high for my liking, but otherwise it looks like any other Honda V6.

Honda's engines seem to like the M1 20wt oils.
 
Oh yes, even if I was ready to get it now, I would wait for the '06. Better mileage and more power through a bunch of new components. I read the press release. Very impressive.

That is what I figured you meant, just never heard it refered to it that way. And since it invokes positive conotations that I prefer not to invoke when refering to IL roads, I had to say something .
smile.gif


BTW, I agree, that 2nd UOA is definitely not M1.
 
this engine setup is definitely only a hwy cruiser, not for extended in town stop and go, too many dry startups for long bearing life. this beast needs a continuous on electric oil pump for long engine life. keep pouring in that moly for all those auto stops and the potential for extra wear on that expensive valve system. keep the cruise rpm above 1800 with the overdrive on/off.
the shape of things to come. $100 oil after Katrina. $200 a bl. after the Sunni Iraqis take over

[ August 29, 2005, 02:46 AM: Message edited by: Steelhead ]
 
quote:

Originally posted by Steelhead:
this engine setup is definitely only a hwy cruiser, not for extended in town stop and go, too many dry startups for long bearing life. this beast needs a continuous on electric oil pump for long engine life. keep pouring in that moly for all those auto stops and the potential for extra wear on that expensive valve system. keep the cruise rpm above 1800 with the overdrive on/off.
the shape of things to come. $100 oil after Katrina. $200 a bl. after the Sunni Iraqis take over


When are all these "dry" startups occuring?
dunno.gif
 
Hi,
as mentioned about a year ago in a similar manner I had a lot of exposure to stop-start prototype engine management in the early 1980s

This was to do with the operation of ThermoKing reefer units. ThermoKing did their part in US and I did my own here in OZ and independently - we shared results at regular intervals
In consort with Castrol (and using "R" synthetic 10w-60) we settled on a "cool oil" point of about 50C before auto-restart as I recall. This was above the critical cold start wear point - and the engine would run to the agreed temperature (I forget what that was but around 90C I think) before shutting off again if not needed to pull temperature

We changed the oil according to UOAs and I think this was averaged at about 2000hrs (equiv. to around 160000kms). We got out to 20000hrs engine life!

These controls became an option about 1985 and were standard from about 1988

Doug
 
Used M1 0w-20 @6900mi./Virgin M1 0w-20

Zn 917/1144=80%
P 768/1020=75%

Notice that the Zn and P levels have dropped to almost 75% of their levels when new, which may be telling us that the oil has reached the end of its lifespan.

Michael
 
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