Lubrication Temperature-SAE studies wanted

[Killerbees]

I need your helps guys. Especially molakule and Dr Haas. I would like specific information on the relationship between lubrication quality and motor oil condition, temperature mostly. If there is a useful SAE study , that would have information understandeable to the common man. I can interpret any engineering data also, so technical is not a problem. One of the projects I am working on, a turbo-diesel application , shows bulk oil temps up to 360F, local temps are probably higher. These are WOT towing runs lasting 10 minutes or more. I would love a way to properly predict what some of the local temps are, as tearing down the motor to probe it is not practical. Any information that can predict oil condition for this environment would be helpful also. Thanks in advance!

 

[carock]

SAE 860374 "Wear Mechanisms in Moderate Temperature Gasoline Engine Service"; SAE 2002-01-2769 "Performance of a Synthetic Diesel Engine Oil". Neither of these is what you are really looking for, but each may have a few tidbits.The first deals with the effects of oxidation and viscosity changes on wear and the next deals with the effects of changing fron 15-40W to the newer 5-40W diesel motor oil.

 

[Killerbees]

awesome carock! good stuff, keepem coming, that is what I need. My email is [email protected] if anyone has anything they think I could use, much appreciated.

 

[Mitch Alsup]

If you are seeing bulk oil temps in the 360dF range, you need an oil cooler, or a bigger one, or more than one, or better air ducting to the one(s) you have. 260dF OK, 360dF and bad thing happen.

 

[Killerbees]

Yes, I understand. What "bad things"? Please replies should be backed by some form of documentation, study, article, etc. I am compiling a stack of "proof" vs hearsay or speculation.

 

[Terry]

Killerbees, contact STLE.com for their data base, I know I read a paper not to long ago referencing oil temp vs. viscosity but I am too overloaded with work to find it in this mess! If I find a reference I will PM you. Using basic oil analysis data, maybe IR thermometer data points immediately after a run, I can correlate proprietary manufactorers data I have on that specific engine to what we record in the analysis results. UOA is exactly what you need here. It can eliminate all the theoretical bull from decision making for you on regimen. Terry

 

[427Z06]

Killerbees, something like this? www.uni-stuttgart.de/hsg-imat/viscosity%20sensor.pdf http://www.tytlabs.co.jp/english/review/rev383epdf/e383_036moritani.pdf Terry's services are highly recommended. [ May 12, 2006, 01:46 PM: Message edited by: 427Z06 ]

 

[Killerbees]

I like that 2nd one!

 

[Killerbees]

Thanks Terry.

 

[N2OIL]

You could always join the SAE. As a member you will recieve updates and have access to papers on the subject of your interest. Also as a member you will recieve a discount on papers and literature for purchase.

 

[Killerbees]

I am very familiar, thanks. Just looking to narrow down some 28,000 documents

 

[AEHaas]

SAE SP-1894 and SP-1550 are excellent compendiums of research articles. You do not have to join SAE to purchase articles but they can then be had at a 20 percent discount. Go to www.sae.org and do a search for articles. There are also numerous charts along the lines of what you are asking in the SAE Automotive handbook. Interestingly I have not seen any significant articles in the last year. It is almost like there is no more interest in motor oil. However, there is a lot of interest in drive train lubrication now. aehaas

 

[Killerbees]

thanks doc

 

[Gary Allan]

Killerbees ...@360F ..depending on the length of service in a diesel...you surely have some localized temps that (probably) approach the flash point. Oddly ..when I looked in the UOA diesel section ..that appears to be the figure that almost everyone leaves cospicuously out of their report. Blackstone users have it ..but just about no one else. The lowest that was noted, when actually noted, was about 420F..but there were so few in my surface scan ..that it didn't mean a whole lot. I don't think that any SAE paper is required to point this out to a novice

 

[Terry]

Gary our premium kit includes flash among many other test data points.

 

[N2OIL]

Since you really did not list too many details. Try Doc. No. J304 in the search engine of SAE.org. And if you would not mind listing more of the standards or testing requirements you wish to achieve.

 

[Gary Allan]

I think he just wants to perform a public service to diesel drivers that mash their motors up 6-8% grades fully loaded. He's trying to warn them of the ill things that they're doing to their fine and expensive engines. He cares. He wants to help. .. . . . . . . .(shhh) and happens to have a packaged cooler setup that might take care of it. (think future BullyDog type thingy) Nuttin wrong wid dat I see a future cash contributing member there I tell ya. I can feel it

 

[Killerbees]

LOL. Gary, you are a good salesperson. and you are all over my intentions for sure.

 

[Killerbees]

quote:

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Originally posted by N2OIL: Since you really did not list too many details. Try Doc. No. J304 in the search engine of SAE.org. And if you would not mind listing more of the standards or testing requirements you wish to achieve.

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Mostly right now, I would like to track down (if it exists) a study that predicts the highest local internal oil temps, as an empirical model, for a similar type vehicle. It is much like a racing application, in that wot is used, yet more extreme than racing as wot is used for 10 minutes at a time, and at restricted airspeeds. A real cooling challenge. Beyond that, there are soot challenges. Very abrasive. excluding bypass filtration, would like to determine how increased oil temps, also increases wear/tear on the motor, vis vie asperity size vs hydrodynamic film strength, hopefully you understand what I am saying. The film thickness is related to Oil T, etc. Thanks for your input.

 

[AEHaas]

The SAE automotive handbook addresses all these things in at least some detail. If you read the whole thing and digest it I am sure you will be a walking textbook. In the back are colored diagrams of oil temperatures in all different engine locations, kind of fun to look at. aehaas