Low miles, but OLD car with factory fill?!?!?!

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My 1987 Ciera w/the 4t440 trans has only 53k miles and is still on the factory fill (with the exception of two quarts that I swapped out via the dipstick tube with a fluid extractor).

The fluid kinda looks like fresh motor oil with a reddish tint (pics below). It smells ok and I don't see any clutch material in it at all.

The question that I'm posing to you is, I know the whole thing about high mileage trans. oil and the whole debate on whether to change it or not if its never been done before, but what about NOT high mileage fluid but happens to be 26 years old???

Ive been doing one quarts swaps once a week two times for a total of 2 quarts being changed thus far. Next week, I'm gonna do two at once and then the same a week later, followed by a pan drop/filter change around mid-June.

My instinct tells me fresh fluid is a good thing, even though my mechanic told me not to touch the factory fill being that it's been there so long and the trans. will likely take a dump with new stuff (the "myth").

The idea is a safer (albeit slower) way to do a fluid exchange without hooking it up to a machine and a more gradual/gentle way to introduce fresh fluid to an old (but low mileage) transmission. I'm nervous about messing with the internal seals and clutch packs.

GM recommends in the manual to do a fluid/filter change @ 100k (seems too long IMO) unless it was under severe duty (towing, consistent high temps and /or taxi service), in which case @ 15k miles.

The crux of this is how much does age play a role rather than mileage?


I also must point out that she shifts perfect. In fact, since I swapped the two quarts for Castrol dex/merc, she shifts even smoother than before.

dipstick2.jpg

drops2.jpg


FYI, It was sunny out, causing the fluid to look a little brighter.
 
I say, change it with the specified fluid & move on.
From your description, it doesn't sound nearly neglected, decrepit, or fragile to warrant baby step fluid changes and treatment.
 
Originally Posted By: michaelluscher
I say, change it with the specified fluid & move on.
From your description, it doesn't sound nearly neglected, decrepit, or fragile to warrant baby step fluid changes and treatment.


Right, but age might play a factor as well, no?

Also, one more thing I forgot to bring up. The factory fill is Dexron II, Ive been swapping with Castrol Dex/Merc, it's ok to mix those??

The label says backwards compatible, "for use in GM 2005 and older vehicles".

The issue I'm thinking of is mixing the two rather than just solely using the new stuff.
 
Originally Posted By: hardcore302
I'm convinced that half the cars in this country have the factory fill in there until they die at 200K..

LOL, probably true!

So, then you think I shouldn't touch it anymore/forget about dropping the pan all together if I can get that kind of mileage on a factory fill?


You see what I did there? .... sneakily bringing the age old debate back into play, hehe.
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Originally Posted By: hardcore302
I'm convinced that half the cars in this country have the factory fill in there until they die at 200K..



Maybe, but the other half have the factory fill when they are towed into a transmission shop for a rebuilt transmission.
 
Originally Posted By: oilboy123
If it was mine the fluid would get flushed out with Amsoil. If I was not an Amsoil user it would get flushed out with something else anyway......


+1
 
I thought general agreement in bitog land was tranny fluid needed to be changed from between 30,000 to 50,000 miles regardless of age. If we look at the other side of the coin, let's say the car was only 3 years old and had 50,000 miles on it - everyone would agree time for a fluid change. Regardless of age, the fluid still has 53,000 miles on it, therefore, time for a change.

If it were me, I'd drop the pan, change the filter, replace pan and fill. Then every couple of weeks (or even every week), change fluid via filler tube until you've run 14-16 quarts through the system. (Then, you can drive it to Florida and drop all the old stuff at my house so I can put it in the "Luv" Machine).
 
One other question regarding the age of the tranny and transmission fluid. Is the transmission a totally sealed unit. I'm a firm believer that oil and transmission fluid has an indefinite shelf life as long as the container is sealed, (I know that some say between five and seven years, but that's another thread).

I think most of us would agree that if we had a 26 year old bottle of transmission fluid that HAD BEEN OPENED sitting on our shelf somewhere, we would be loath to use it due to possible contamination. So part of the question in changing this fluid should be, how "sealed" is the transmission. With such low miles, my guess would be this car has either done a lot of sitting or a bunch of short trips or both. Could this fluid be contaminated with moisture in the same way as an open bottle of fluid that's been sitting on the shelf in the shop?
 
I say slowly introduce new fluid - forget Amsoil or other techno fluid.

New, spec ATF fluid will be the best the car has had in 25 years and by doing slowly you won't rock the boat. -Not that it matters, just seems like YOU will sleep better at night. And that matters
 
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Get the pan dropped and filter out of there, you don't have to wussy foot it. I found the same trans in a 91 ciera that had been neglected and the filter was heavy with grey sludge from the clutch packs.

If you have a vacuum modulator, replace it with a red stripe one. Like this guy. You can adjust the shift smoothness with a little screwdriver and it's super easy to install. The factory modulator died on my trans which made it shift too soft and shred itself.

You seem to like the buttery smooth shifts but a little firmness means longer life. The red stripe modulator is actually a lot of fun to tweak "just right".

I say no on the lubegard. Keep it fresh with fresh fluid, dex3 or Dexron VI, whatever your budget.
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Get the pan dropped and filter out of there, you don't have to wussy foot it. I found the same trans in a 91 ciera that had been neglected and the filter was heavy with grey sludge from the clutch packs.

If you have a vacuum modulator, replace it with a red stripe one. Like this guy. You can adjust the shift smoothness with a little screwdriver and it's super easy to install. The factory modulator died on my trans which made it shift too soft and shred itself.

You seem to like the buttery smooth shifts but a little firmness means longer life. The red stripe modulator is actually a lot of fun to tweak "just right".

I say no on the lubegard. Keep it fresh with fresh fluid, dex3 or Dexron VI, whatever your budget.
messing with more stuff, how would I know what to set it at?

I was actually worried about this, too smooth is not good also!
 
Changing fluid does NOT kill transmissions. Even if it was a high mileage unit, I would change all that fluid out and not worry about trans problems. On a low mileage unit, it's a no-brainer. Change it.
 
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Changing fluid does NOT kill transmissions. Even if it was a high mileage unit, I would change all that fluid out and not worry about trans problems. On a low mileage unit, it's a no-brainer. Change it.


Agreed, but age might play a factor, no?
 
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Id leave it as is. Fluid looks fine and likely is fine. Or change it with rec'd fluid.

so, the first half of your recommendation is to leave it and the second half is to change it???
 
Originally Posted By: GreeCguy
I thought general agreement in bitog land was tranny fluid needed to be changed from between 30,000 to 50,000 miles regardless of age. If we look at the other side of the coin, let's say the car was only 3 years old and had 50,000 miles on it - everyone would agree time for a fluid change. Regardless of age, the fluid still has 53,000 miles on it, therefore, time for a change.

Right, but how much does age play a factor, especially inside a low mileage trans.


Originally Posted By: GreeCguy

If it were me, I'd drop the pan, change the filter, replace pan and fill. Then every couple of weeks (or even every week), change fluid via filler tube until you've run 14-16 quarts through the system.
So, your saying that I should do the filter/pan drop first and then do the quart extraction fills that I have been doing. I thought better the other way around.

Do you think I'm doing it backwards?
 
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