Yep, Indiana is a free state, concealed carry permits, fireworks, class 3 permits (machine guns), the whole 9 yards. I wish I lived close enough to move there but I live in DeKalb and work in Dixon so its no go. Good luck, and be careful on your trip. (Kentucky is another free state) RW
Lost over 1mpg going back to dino
- Thread starter dickwells
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So unfortunaly unless someone can GUARANTEE to me the Schaeffer's will hold a higher pressure and have better VI characteristics (not losing pressure at temp) than this Delvac 1300...
Jason
I know for a fact that if Delvac or any other oil(redline) is capable of holding pressure at temp, Schaeffers will also. One thing about it, I wouldn't be so quick to say it's losing, it could be due to better flow or maybe you have some blockage to the op sensor or a number of other things. Main thing is, as long as your valves are not rattling or ticking while at that low pressure, it makes no difference what your gauge says, it's got more than enough to run that engine. It's when you start hearing the top end ticking and such with the low reading, now you got to worry. Many oils can flow better and this can cause the oil pressure to read lower, and the same is true if too high a viscosity oil cannot pump up to the gauge(tube gauge not sensor) thus looking like lower oil pressure.
Anyway, FWIW and FYI, I wouldn't be scared of Schaeffers oil at all for that. I've yet see an oil pressure problem because of schaeffers oil.
Jason
I know for a fact that if Delvac or any other oil(redline) is capable of holding pressure at temp, Schaeffers will also. One thing about it, I wouldn't be so quick to say it's losing, it could be due to better flow or maybe you have some blockage to the op sensor or a number of other things. Main thing is, as long as your valves are not rattling or ticking while at that low pressure, it makes no difference what your gauge says, it's got more than enough to run that engine. It's when you start hearing the top end ticking and such with the low reading, now you got to worry. Many oils can flow better and this can cause the oil pressure to read lower, and the same is true if too high a viscosity oil cannot pump up to the gauge(tube gauge not sensor) thus looking like lower oil pressure.
Anyway, FWIW and FYI, I wouldn't be scared of Schaeffers oil at all for that. I've yet see an oil pressure problem because of schaeffers oil.
BTW, forgot to mention, I don't think it's so much auto rx that is causing mileage reduction as it is the combination of fuel and type of oil. Redline does have a good fm as does schaeffers and that alone can make up that little difference. It did mine when I changed over in a little truck I bought.
Gee Jason, I actually noticed a decrease in fuel economy when going from Mobil 1/Valvoline Synpower to Red Line 10W30.
I attribute it to the fact that Red Line 10W30 was noticeably thicker than the comparable weights in the other brands.
Your reduced oil pressure either means that your oil is significantly thinner, especially at temp, or you might be right about the SuperTech filter being a little too restrictive. I noticed that it took longer than usual for my oil light to go off upon start-up when I had one of their filters on my car.
If you're right about the oil being thinner ... you should also see a GAIN in fuel economy instead of a reduction.
Anyway, I'd like to see you take Bob up on his challenge to try Schaeffer. Unfortunately, I don't have too many interesting examples of machinery around here for testing ... and I have yet to resort to carjacking fellow motorists like I'm sure Patman does.
--- Bror Jace
I attribute it to the fact that Red Line 10W30 was noticeably thicker than the comparable weights in the other brands.
Your reduced oil pressure either means that your oil is significantly thinner, especially at temp, or you might be right about the SuperTech filter being a little too restrictive. I noticed that it took longer than usual for my oil light to go off upon start-up when I had one of their filters on my car.
If you're right about the oil being thinner ... you should also see a GAIN in fuel economy instead of a reduction.
Anyway, I'd like to see you take Bob up on his challenge to try Schaeffer. Unfortunately, I don't have too many interesting examples of machinery around here for testing ... and I have yet to resort to carjacking fellow motorists like I'm sure Patman does.
--- Bror Jace
Had RedLine 10w40,MTL,75w90 in car. (I've never had dino since owning car) Switched to 15w40 Delvac1300,Supertech80w90, Pennzoil 80w90 with 2oz/qt Auto-rx in all components.
Mileage actually went down about 2mpg driving hard like I did with Red Line. I have been driving easy in attempts to get back some mileage and it is still 1mpg down. Not to mention Auto-rx should be reducing friction if anything, so this really blows...
Another thing is that my idle OP is down over 5psi. But this could be a multitude of things:delvac 1300 sheared down already, auto-rx thins oil, auto-rx already cleaned so much and starting to plug filter, supertech flow rate is poor, dino oil inherently has lower pressure than syn (althought I have heard opposite).
This delvac1300 has over 5psi less at 160F than what Red Line had at 210F. Red Line didn't seem to be affected much by heat.
Interestingly the Delvac 1300 seems to be running cooler, OT wise. If I do go back to Red Line I think it will be the 10w30 instead.
Edit: about the oil pressure, it is getting dangerously low even at only 180F is almost to 10psi. The warning light would be coming on at 7psi, if I hadn't replaced the sending unit for the VDO guage. Red Line never got below 15psi even over 210F....
So unfortunaly unless someone can GUARANTEE to me the Schaeffer's will hold a higher pressure and have better VI characteristics (not losing pressure at temp) than this Delvac 1300... I think it's back to Red Line afterwords. Just hope the RX fixes the seals permanently and does require dino forever to maintain them
Or I could use 20w50 dino and really have my mileage go to the pot...bad enough already...
[ November 27, 2002, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: Jason Troxell ]
Mileage actually went down about 2mpg driving hard like I did with Red Line. I have been driving easy in attempts to get back some mileage and it is still 1mpg down. Not to mention Auto-rx should be reducing friction if anything, so this really blows...
Another thing is that my idle OP is down over 5psi. But this could be a multitude of things:delvac 1300 sheared down already, auto-rx thins oil, auto-rx already cleaned so much and starting to plug filter, supertech flow rate is poor, dino oil inherently has lower pressure than syn (althought I have heard opposite).
This delvac1300 has over 5psi less at 160F than what Red Line had at 210F. Red Line didn't seem to be affected much by heat.
Interestingly the Delvac 1300 seems to be running cooler, OT wise. If I do go back to Red Line I think it will be the 10w30 instead.
Edit: about the oil pressure, it is getting dangerously low even at only 180F is almost to 10psi. The warning light would be coming on at 7psi, if I hadn't replaced the sending unit for the VDO guage. Red Line never got below 15psi even over 210F....
So unfortunaly unless someone can GUARANTEE to me the Schaeffer's will hold a higher pressure and have better VI characteristics (not losing pressure at temp) than this Delvac 1300... I think it's back to Red Line afterwords. Just hope the RX fixes the seals permanently and does require dino forever to maintain them
Or I could use 20w50 dino and really have my mileage go to the pot...bad enough already...
[ November 27, 2002, 12:24 PM: Message edited by: Jason Troxell ]
Think the "winter" gas could have any effect? My truck certainly get at least a mpg less just being winter conditions. Good luck, RW
Yes winter gas had a huge effect, but I am pretty sure they switched over already...a month or two ago I lost almost 1-2mpg and been that way since.
THANK YOU EPA
So with the summer gas, and Red Line I was getting pretty good mileage. Imagine If I could use completely un-reformulated gas...
I'm driving to Kentucky today and waiting to fill up until I am in Indiana, and getting all my gas there. According to EPA's website, they don't have any kind of reformulated gas program....
THANK YOU EPA
So with the summer gas, and Red Line I was getting pretty good mileage. Imagine If I could use completely un-reformulated gas...
I'm driving to Kentucky today and waiting to fill up until I am in Indiana, and getting all my gas there. According to EPA's website, they don't have any kind of reformulated gas program....
Patman
Staff member
Hehe, I haven't slipped quite that far over the edge yet Bror! But pretty close!
Jason, I'm arriving late but how sludged was that engine? Any other cleaners recently besides Arx? Does the pressure bounce? Any chance you could have broken enough junk loose to plug the pickup screen? Just something evil I've encountered. Could be in the screen or blocking the sender.
I agree 10 is okay at idle, but if it drops further I'd check the sender line, (maybe install a parallel gauge) & if okay pull the pan & check the pickup screen & pump.
Bror, about the filter & restriction, was the bypass rating different than the previous filter's?
Bread's rising, it's beer & bed time. Whataday!
Don't eat too much everyone!
David
I agree 10 is okay at idle, but if it drops further I'd check the sender line, (maybe install a parallel gauge) & if okay pull the pan & check the pickup screen & pump.
Bror, about the filter & restriction, was the bypass rating different than the previous filter's?
Bread's rising, it's beer & bed time. Whataday!
Don't eat too much everyone!
David
I would look at it this way. Even if you lost 1MPG and it was totally because of the change in oil you are now paying less than $6 for a GALLON of Delvac 1300 vs. $7 or $8 for one QUART of Redline.
I think Delvac would hang with the best of them for an oil drain of up to 10K or so in a car. Just my uneducated opinion
I think Delvac would hang with the best of them for an oil drain of up to 10K or so in a car. Just my uneducated opinion
David, I don't think this engine was sludged at all. It's an electric guage(VDO). Reading is always stable. I've actually finished the first treatment (Will be changing again today and preparing to do 2nd treatment in 1k or so) and I don't notice a bit of difference in how the car runs. The reason I am using it is to stop some minor leaks and if all it does is that, I will be happy. But it must be a little dirty if the seals were able to dry out (dino for first 120k) and now running syn is causing leaks...and although I don't feel anything I now have had no consumption visible on the dipstick for almost 1k miles. Back when I used the M1 15w50 it was 1qt/4k, so I should have seen somthing by now. Especially considering the D1300 is dino and thinner.... So I will be impressed if the RX stopped that.
Bror, not so sure that if it was thinner or thinned out that I would see better fuel economy, since the Red Line would have had superior FM as Bob said. Not to mention the Supertech and pennzoil in the tranny and gearbox dont have the best FM either. So I can't say if its due to engine or gear oils. Probably both.
The only other thing that gets me is why the Red Line runs a bit warmer. Actually seems a little more than M1 15w50 as well but thats just based on memory. Pressure on Red Line stays higher than even M1 too.
I'm thinking it is because the Red Line will not shear at all, so even though the synthetic should have less fluid resistance...because it doesnt shear it actually has more viscous drag. Therefore more heat
Maybe this could relate to the pressure as well?
Bror, not so sure that if it was thinner or thinned out that I would see better fuel economy, since the Red Line would have had superior FM as Bob said. Not to mention the Supertech and pennzoil in the tranny and gearbox dont have the best FM either. So I can't say if its due to engine or gear oils. Probably both.
The only other thing that gets me is why the Red Line runs a bit warmer. Actually seems a little more than M1 15w50 as well but thats just based on memory. Pressure on Red Line stays higher than even M1 too.
I'm thinking it is because the Red Line will not shear at all, so even though the synthetic should have less fluid resistance...because it doesnt shear it actually has more viscous drag. Therefore more heat
The VI of the Delvac 1300S @ 100c is 15.5 and the Mobil Supersyn is 17.4 so there could be why the pressure is down from what your used to.
I used the 1300S last summer and noticed a terrible decrease in milaege over a 10/40 PCMO .I won't even post it it was so bad
I'm the guy who's opinion is to use a HD Diesel oil in a diesel and a PCMO in a car although I'm guessing you have this oil in for additional cleaning
I used the 1300S last summer and noticed a terrible decrease in milaege over a 10/40 PCMO .I won't even post it it was so bad
I'm the guy who's opinion is to use a HD Diesel oil in a diesel and a PCMO in a car although I'm guessing you have this oil in for additional cleaning
Well I was comparing the pressure to Red Line 10w40, which actually has the same or better(at high temp) pressure as M1 15w50. The viscosity of Red Line is 14.6 cSt@100c.
Interesting...maybe it is mostly from the engine oil.
Interesting...maybe it is mostly from the engine oil.
Patman, you don’t have to admit anything to me. The local police are probably still building a case against you and I don’t want to prod you into incriminating yourself.
1quart, I used whatever filter was specified for my application (I forget the part number). I didn’t get creative and choose a larger filter which had the same base dimensions, etc …
Jason, the mystery continues. I suppose what we could have here is less friction because of the moly … but greater hydrodynamic drag because of the more stable, shear-resistant fluid. I think it’s Boyle’s Law that talks about pressure and temperature which might explain a slight increase but that applies to gasses. Maybe there’s a similar effect which applies to liquids?
--- Bror Jace
1quart, I used whatever filter was specified for my application (I forget the part number). I didn’t get creative and choose a larger filter which had the same base dimensions, etc …
Jason, the mystery continues. I suppose what we could have here is less friction because of the moly … but greater hydrodynamic drag because of the more stable, shear-resistant fluid. I think it’s Boyle’s Law that talks about pressure and temperature which might explain a slight increase but that applies to gasses. Maybe there’s a similar effect which applies to liquids?
--- Bror Jace
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