light question for the experts: B3 vs B4.

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Israel.
i'm searching the web for B3 vs B4 information, read all kind of opinions, saying that B3 is much tougher oil than B4, which mean it (B3) would protect better against wear.(in C3 oil's) so i'm a bit confuse, isn't B4 should be more advance than B3? hope you guys can spare few minutes, educate me. thanks in advance!
 

n0mad

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23
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Israel.
ok, so, B4 is indeed better version of B3. another question: why ILSAC GF5 cannot be found in C3 oils? i understand it's top notch spec against engine wear, but i didnt notice even GF4 in c3 oils. hope my noobish question doesn't bother you, but i need to understand, or at least make sense of all the different spec's. all the best guys!
 
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GF5 is not a top notch spec for wear - it main focus is fuel economy with compromise in other areas. IT is intended to be improved over ILSAC GF4, though.
 

n0mad

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Israel.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
C3 requires an HTHS of 3.5...it's pretty hard to achieve a GF5 economy rating with that high a viscosity.
thank you! grin
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
GF5 is not a top notch spec for wear - it main focus is fuel economy with compromise in other areas. IT is intended to be improved over ILSAC GF4, though.
thank you! grin
 

n0mad

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23
Location
Israel.
emm, another thing that keeps me confused: there's B3\B4(04) in the ACEA site i can see B3\B4(2010) so why does new oil support B4(04) and not newest 2010 \2012 ? does it cost more money to oil company's to support new standards or there isn't any different between those time frames? thank you!
 
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ACEA state that it's mandatory to * not have two year series listed. * Use only the current one for when making new claims (i.e. a new brew made after December 2013 MUST use B3/B4 2012. * if you have an older brew, not use the older spec past it's mandated expiry date....2004 should not be used on oils marketed after 31 December 2009.
 

n0mad

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Location
Israel.
ok, i think i get it, it's not mean better oil, it mean new \ old oil? another thing, sometimes i see oil with: 5w30 A3\B3 A3\B4 c3 etc etc. or 5w30 A3\B4 c3 etc etc. does it mean it's better if it support more spec's? and if it is, dosn't B4 oil is the same as A3\B3 A3\B4? because B4 is more advance then B3, but it's the same as B4? shannow, thank you for being patience with me. :o)
 
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Now you need to dig out the ACEA specs (they let you have them), and see why some of the specs that you have seen on the same label are incompatible. e.g. I've had one company in Oz argue that less than or equal to 3.5HTHS on one spec, and greater than or equal to 3.5 on another spec, an oil meets both specs if it is exactly 3.5...that's playing clever with possibilities. Some claims, however, are impossible.
 
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@ nomad ; I'm sure Shannow will elaborate better then me, but for beginning A3 is petrol engine specification and B3/B4 are for diesels. B3 are considered to be obsolete at least on European market. B4 is long drain, better version of B3 oil. But since you've asked about B3, B4 and C3 oil I assume you drive a diesel, so if your car is pre DPF you should use B4 or C3 oils. For later cars C3 oil is mandatory.
 
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n0mad

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23
Location
Israel.
hi Chris! thank you for your explanation, and your fast correct assumption. :o) chris, as you noticed, i'm struggle to understand which oil is better suited for my car.(pajero 3.2 diesel with DPF) in my country, we dont have the amazing wide selection you can find in wallmart, here we have castrol(oil i wont touch with a stick) Valvoline(the one i use) liqui moly, rheinol, ARAL, royal purple, Kixx, Shell.(and some other medium oil's) but not the Amsoil i wish i could use, or HD mobil 1, or caltex 400. so all the time, i search and re-search for better oil, an oil il be complete with, because i know it's the best for my engine. and what better way to know, is to ask questions. even when i ask, i'm doing it short and clear, because i'm noobie, and sometimes i feel i'm harassing people here with my questions. so, if you have any kind of tips for, to help me evaluate oil better, il be eternally grateful. :o)
 
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Hi Nomad. Tell us for start what oil is specified for your Pajero. I assume you have manual of some kind. You should always respect manufacturer recommendations. As for oil brands, any major producer will be fine, but I find Shell to be best for the money. This is however case in Europe, in US M1 is most favorable for same reasons. So you need to find most cost effective oil in your area that will also meet your car needs. After quick search I found that in UK your car is spec'd for 5w30 B1/B5 oils and this is quite weak specification, but however this is not necessarily right for your hot climate.
 

n0mad

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23
Location
Israel.
yo chris! well, to be honest, i've already opened thread about oil for my car, and all the amazing guys here, did their best to help me. and i end up choosing Valvoline 5w30 XL III c3. another thing that bugs me, i can find 5w30 C3 oil, with SN, but not any kind of B(3or4) but not SN with B3 or B4. i've been told SN oil, have more compression. is that right? chris, thank you for helping me, thank you very much!
 
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Nomad, don't waste time with API specifications because they mean little outside of North America, and they are far easier to meet then European counterpart ACEA. This is why I asked you what is specified in Israel since you have very hot weather there. ACEA B4 is out of the question for you since your Mitsi run with DPF, and B4 is full saps oil so it's not suited for your car. Opie Oils an UK based merchant spec's 5w30 B1/B5 oil for your car, but UK is much colder place then Israel. To be honest I would run 5w40 C3 oil in your car just to be on safe side.
 

n0mad

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Messages
23
Location
Israel.
this is my current oil spec's: SAE 5W-30 ACEA C3-10 Suitable for use in engines where ACEA A3/B4 is recommended *** Meets all engine protection requirements of ACEA C2 BMW Longlife-04 MB-229.51** Porsche C30 Approved under VW Standard 504.00 / 507.00* * Can be used where: VW 501.01, 502.00, 503.01, 505.00, 503.00, 506.00, 506.01 are specified ** MB-229.31 included *** Except when using diesel fuels with more than 0.5% sulpher. and: SynPower Xtreme XL-III C3 SAE Viscosity Grade 5W-30 Viscosity, mm 2 /s @ 100 ºC. ASTM D-445 11.8 Viscosity, mm 2 /s @ 40 ºC. ASTM D-445 68 Viscosity Index ASTM D-2270 170 Viscosity, mPa.s –30ºC. ASTM D-5293 <6600 TBN, mg KOH/g ASTM D-2896 6.6 Pour Point, ºC ASTM D-5950 -42 Specific Gravity @ 15.6°C. ASTM D-4052 0.853 Flash Point, COC, ºC. ASTM D-92 230 is it something that can increase my engine wear? it's suitable for DPF, and catalytic converter. still you think my choice was wrong? thank you in advance!
 
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You are good with this C3 oil. How much sulphur is there in diesel in Israel ? I'm asking because if you guys have much sulphur in your diesel fuel you should shorten your OCI. You might consider 5w40 C3 in future if it's gets very hot in the summer. Cheers !
 

n0mad

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Messages
23
Location
Israel.
last i heard (2003)we have 50ppm in our diesel. our diesel meet the euro 4 \ 5 requirements. i'm guessing it's good. as for the 5w40c3. how much does to hot for 5w30? in israel in the summer is between 25 to 30 Celsius. can 5w40 oil can damage my engine, i mean today's engine are very precise,and thicker oil might not lube the engine properly.(that's what i've been told) and what about fuel economy, how much does5w40 will differ from 5w30? again, many many thank you chris. :o)
 
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either the 5W30 or the 5W40 need an HTHS of 3.5 to meet C3. The Mitsubishi in Australia they specify 5W40 mostly, but I wouldn't worry too much if all you had available was the 5W30 (or that was the grade that gave you the biggest range), the HTHS is there, the protection is there, it will have less VII than the 40. Neither will be too thick for your engine, in the no DPF vehicles in Australia, 15W40 is about all that ever goes in them, and that's probably got an HTHS of 4 to 4.5. Don't get an ILSAC 5W30, or fuel conserving, make sure that it's C3.
 
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Australia
Originally Posted By: n0mad
yo chris! another thing that bugs me, i can find 5w30 C3 oil, with SN, but not any kind of B(3or4) but not SN with B3 or B4. i've been told SN oil, have more compression. is that right?
What do you mean by more compression? SN is irrelevant for a diesel engine. It is possible for an oil to meet SN and A3/B4. It is also possible to have SN and C3. But it is impossible to have A3/B4 and C3 since 2010.
 
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