Lifter Tickage! grrrr

[z00mz00m]

I know you guys get this all the time, asking for solutions and whatnot, I've done multiple searches trying to find anything to help me decide what to do. But I just can't do it!

I drive a 1988 Acura Legend Sedan w/ 183k miles. I only do short trip driving. 10 miles between school back and forth every day. I drive pretty hard considering the short trips I go on. I don't ONLY go to school and back, town is only about 3 miles away from my place, so that is even shorter driving than it is to school, and I also drive to friends houses often.

I have tried Auto-rx, CD2, and Marvel Mystery oil to no avail with my ticking lifters. I am estimating that my car has been using Valvoline Maxlife for about the last 7 years with the previous owner of the car. I am currently running regular Pennzoil 5w-30. I am assuming that the oil changes on my car were kept up regularly because there have only been 3 owners, and 1 worked at an Acura dealership, and the last one got their oil changed at a Valvoline place, and I had the service records printed out and I know she kept up the changes.

Well, with that out of the way, I wanted to ask what should I do to get rid of this ticking asap. I don't intend on having this car for a very long time, I'm still in High School and I want to get a newer Acura Legend in the future.

I do not want to harm my engine in any way, and I'm skeptical of things such as using ATF in the oil, and maybe switching to a heavier weight oil (during these upcoming mild months). My lifters only tick during initial warmup and they go away with higher rpms and as the engine warms up to normal operating temps. I hate having the loud ticking in the parking lot at school when I'm in the line to get outta the lot. Its embarrassing.

Sorry for such a long first post. I just want opinions on what I should do to quiet my lifters down soon from the experts.. you guys

Thank ya thank ya
-Ryan

 

[Drew99GT]

Does your car have hydraulic lifters/lash adjusters? If not, it's time for a valve lash adjustment. If so, you probably have worn out hydraulic adjusters that are not pumping up. I have a feeling that an 88 model Acura has to be manually adjusted.

 

[z00mz00m]

i have hydrolic lifters, and only the exhaust tappets can be adjusted, not the intake valves. i've already determined that that will make no difference in anything. i'm just trying to find out which oil will make my situation better, and which additive (if any) should I use.

 

[DJStillman]

What type of filter do you use? You could have low oil pressure, from either an overly restrictive filter, or a worn oil pump.

Another option is going to a 0w oil, to help get oil to the top of the engine faster.

Hope this helps.

 

[Jelly]

How long have the lifters been ticking?

How "inexpensive" do you want to go?

Just want something that is available locally?

 

[TC]

It could be a mechanical problem, as others have noted. I'd also switch oil filter brands just to see if that makes a difference.

If it's a sticking lifter, you've already used a high-end cleaning additive (Auto RX), and two that rely to some extent on mineral oil (I recall that CD2 is 100% mineral oil). How about trying Valvoline/Pyroil 5 Minute Engine Flush (Kragen and other parts stores), a product which is 100% kerosene? Couldn't hurt, assuming there's little further chance of "chunks" or sludge being dislodged at this point. It may have a bit more solvency effect than the other products..? Worth a try. After that, you might look into a high-detergent oil to see if that might help over a period of time, namely one of the diesel lubes like Rotella, Delo 400, etc.

[ February 25, 2004, 12:06 AM: Message edited by: TC ]

 

[raynorway]

When you did the ARX treatment, did you follow the instructions completely? 1500 miles clean and 2000 miles rinse?
I ask because those miles are REALLY needed if you do just short "cold running" trips. And the oil stream inside the lifter piston is quite tiny and it takes a long time to clean out those.
And making 1500 miles on just short trips takes loooong -I know, been there

If a complete ARX treatment doesn't help, use the heaviest weight of oil allowed for your engine (check instructions) or get the lifters replaced/valve train checked.

Ray-

 

[Amkeer]

I had the same vehicle and it ticked also. It only did it the first couple of minutes.

 

[z00mz00m]

well well, got a lot of replies, u guys are very helpful

i went around 1000 miles into the clean phase and then i developed a leaky seal around my oil cooler block, and i had to have it replaced, and then the mechanic topped off the oil when he lost around 3 quarts of it. soooo i didn't ever completely finish, i guess i still have a trace of ARX in my engine right now as we speak, its been 1500 miles since i added it in.

I was planning on going to the honda dealer around here and picking up this specific oil filter that everyone on acura-legend.com has, they say its made for the Acura NSX, but it fits my model legend. its bigger than the stock one listed for my vehicle at kragen. i believe i'm going to try that for my next oil change, altho i'm not sure it'll do too much for my lifters, but it should do something.

this problem is extremely common in the generation 1 legends, almost everyone experiences it at warmup. i was referred here by a member of yours, and i decided to post here and see what kind of responces i could get. he was mainly only telling me about what i need to do to clean my engine and keep it clean. and i basically am looking for a fix that will occur very soon that will be cheap and easy.

the idea about the heaviest weight of oil that i can use sounds pretty good to me right now, altho that member kind of rejected the idea saying its not wise to do that in the upcoming mild weather. what about those kerosene additives, will they act as a fast cleaning additive that may unclog my lifters? remember, they aren't stuck, they just tap at warmup and then it goes away.


hopefully this answers most of the questions asked of me. thanks for all of your help so far

 

[cryptokid]

rarely does anyone actually get a "stuck" lifter. if you did you would be burning valves or popping backfires out the exhaust or intake depending on which lifters are sticking.

what you have is just a gap in the valvetrain and when the cam lobe comes around it literally slaps the gap just like clapping youre hands together. the gap could be caused by a lifter not pumping up, or because the gap is too big for the fully pumped up lifter to narrow, so it ticks untill things warm up and metal expands. if you want to eliminate the noise you need to find a way to reduce this gap. a thicker oil might help to some extent but quite often the easy way to fix a problem is not a very good solution.
can i ask how you have determined that working on the valvetrain will not fix the problem?

 

[LubeRube]

I have an 88 Legend sedan with 196,000 plus miles on it. These first generation Legends are known for some lifter noise, especially on a cold start. And, yes, they do have hydraulic lifters (and also a very innovative SOHC four valves per cyl. design, I might add).
I have had some cold start lifter noise for a long time, but it goes away after about 2-3 minutes. I had used Mobil One 5w30 for the life of the car until I recently started experimenting with other synthetics, dinos and weights. Oddly enough the weight that seems to reduce the lifter noise the best is 10w30, whether synthetic or dino. I don't know that this will work in your case, but I just thought I would pass it on. Also, you might review the forum posts at www.acura-legend.com. Good Luck!

 

[tenderloin]

If not mechanical, throw in some "add anytime formula" Rislone next oil change or if oil has been changed not long ago. The stuff works and is under $3 Hard to beat......You will take some heat from this board...but what do they know?

 

[Drew99GT]

How can you manually adjust the lash on the exhaust valves when they have hydraulic lash adjusters?

I've never seen a design like that, and I would think they would also be adjustable on the intake valves as well. I suspect if you installed a brand new set of hydraulic lash adjusters, your noise would go away completely. Many engines are this way; where the hydraulic lifters/lash adjusters go bad at say, 150K, and simply need to be replaced. If the valve lash is really big, you'll probably gain some performance back as well.

 

[tom slick]

how loud is the ticking?

 

[z00mz00m]

the ticking is pretty loud, its loud enough to attract some unwanted attention in the parking lot at school. i'm not gonna live with this problem if i don't have to, i don't care that it ticks in the morning when warmin up in my driveway, that doesn't matter one bit to me. i just hate pullin up to stop lights and (after waitin a while) hearing a tick.

i want to decrease the volume by at least 70% or so. i think i may try some of that mobil 1 10w-30 if you all think it'll be worth it. i'm also planning on poppin in some engine restore from kragens. that, and getting the larger oil filter is all i have planned right now.


still pondering on the thought of using a heavier weight oil.. anyone have any comments on that?


Thanks

 

[Schmoe]

With that year of vehicle and all you got is some lifter tick noise, live with it. My '90 Olds does it. If your not noticing any difference in performance or oil consumption, I wouldn't worry about it. I'd stick to a good oil, M1 5 or 10 W 30's, or 0W-20's, and try different viscosities when you would normally change out your oil. I bet you will find that the tick will still be there. Do a UOA and see if your wear metals start climbing up, if so, then that may be an indication of a future failure.

 

[z00mz00m]

aight, ya ya, i just thought about it, and it isn't that loud of a tick, i'm just sayin its audible and i'm 100% positive its a hydrolic lifter tick, i've known it was since i got the car. it has varying loudness at times depending on which lifters are doin the ticking.

and ya, i got corrected on another forum too about the maxlife thing, it doesn't really matter, all i was trying to get across was that its been using valvoline's oils for the past 7 years, and that included the maxlife oil for however long its been out on the market. if they had any other kind of high mileage oil before it was officially called "maxlife" then that was probably used to. if not, it was just regular oil


well.. its all up to which oil to use now, i can't make up my mind. i guess i'm goin w/ mobil 1 10w-30 right now. anybody object to that?

[ February 26, 2004, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: z00mz00m ]

 

[Propflux01]

Go to 10w-30, and get rid of that Fram, if equipped.

 

[z00mz00m]

aight, i think that's what i'll be doing. i'm not using a fram, its a purolator, and that is the same brand as the other bigger filter i have talked about. the "bigger" one is made for the acura NSX but it'll fit on my legend

okey dokey, i guess this is all settled.

Mobil 1 10w-30
NSX Oil Filter
Engine Restore


thanks guys!

 

[Schmoe]

From my experience with lifter tick-age, heavier weighted oil will not make a difference. If anything, it would make it more louder at first start up and especially if it's really cold outside. I started thinking maybe you don't have lifter tick at all if its as loud as you say it is. Lifter ticking should be something that you could barely hear inside the cab with the radio off. If it's getting noticed down the street, then it could be piston slap, bad rod, bad crankshaft, etc. etc. Whole new can of worms. Plus, your mileage, it would not be unplausible that you'd not have another problem other than lifter tick. Piston slap should quite down after engine has warmed, but there are others that said that that is not the case .