Lexus Toyota "Lifetime ATF" - baloney
- Thread starter JeffKeryk
- Start date
D
Deleted member 89374
The definition of lifetime fluids literally means for the lifetime of the vehicle. For Hyundais that means 150K miles. Anything you get beyond that out of a Hyundai consider it a big fat bonus or a super freebie.
The other, more cynical, albeit more realistic definition of "lifetime fluids" is: it lasts until your car payments are up.
Look we just gotta trust the engineering Lexus provides if the fluid is lifetime. who are we to argue
Fluid additive pack slowly degrades in time. Transmission adjusts (adapts) with that, for a certain extent (internal pressure regulation, shift points). The longer you wait for that fluid change, the harder you heat up that transmission, the bigger the "adjustment" will be.
When new fluid is introduced, the adjustment is still the same (takes a while to re-learn), so the shifts with the superior fluid feel firmer, car feels that is more lively. Eventually will adjust downwards, but there is still a benefit of running fresh additives in that transmission.
If synthetic fluid is replacing a semi-synthetic, that usually means the additive pack is less important and that's why that fluid it can last longer and at higher temperatures (like southern US summer in stop-and-go rush hour traffic).
"Lifetime" means usually "lifetime of transmission", not "lifetime of owner", nor "lifetime of vehicle". That's 100-150k miles driven in "normal use" driving conditions.
If you look at that "normal use" definition, you found out that most of the urban areas in US (especially states in the lower half) don't fit the "normal" but the "severe driving conditions" or "Special Operating Conditions" (as Toyota calls them), and then the "lifetime" does not apply anymore, but rather 60k miles or 6 years.
Read the owner maintenance manual carefully...
Hyundai definition of "sever driving conditions" is below, see note # F:
For example my RAV4 maintenance schedule shows this at 60k miles or 72 months. Inspect the transmission fluid for "normal". What happens if inspection shows dark fluid (and factory WS will be dark, guaranteed)? Leave it in there?
What's the point of asking for "inspection" if the fluid was indeed "lifetime, don't do anything". Note the 6 years duration, even if you have driven less miles.
Or they just say straight up replace for driving in "special conditions".
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"Lifetime" is a marketing term. Unless clearly defined (and it isn't), it is meaningless.
Just my 2 cents...
MolaKule
Staff member
I don't think the Phrase "Lifetime Fluid" was an engineering phrase, but rather a marketing invention to make you think your vehicle had less ownership/maintenance costs.
It certainly was not a formulator's phrase since we know there is a finite life to fluids.
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They are not lying. The fluid is lifetime, meaning it will work for as long as transmission is alive. The "fine print" is that without fluid changes transmission won't stay alive for long... But in car manufacturer terms "lifetime" means "warranty period".
Sam_Julier
$50 Site Donor 2024
I love driving and owning our 240s and plan to keep them forever. Plus I love working on them! A cooler line exchange at the 20k service is so enjoyable. No lifetime fluids for me. Just a lifetime of enjoyment! 
Yup I did the first spill & fill at 60k miles, then every 30k miles after. Did a filter & gasket at 120k and should be the only one for the life of the trans (no towing, occasional hauling).
However I do question the "superiority of the Idemitsu full synthetic trans fluid versus the Toyota WS." Is this a known thing? Maybe because Idemitsu fluid is labeled full synthetic and Toyota WS is not? Genuinely curious and looking for an explanation... I've got Toyota T-IV ready for the next Tacoma spill & fill, wondering if I should switch after that.
However I do question the "superiority of the Idemitsu full synthetic trans fluid versus the Toyota WS." Is this a known thing? Maybe because Idemitsu fluid is labeled full synthetic and Toyota WS is not? Genuinely curious and looking for an explanation... I've got Toyota T-IV ready for the next Tacoma spill & fill, wondering if I should switch after that.
The T-IV viscosity does not fit well with the synthetic fluids. Those synthetics are usually LV type (like Toyota WS), very rarely in the normal viscosity range. Idemitsu TLS-LV is synthetic, but LV.
I think AMSOIL makes a synthetic that has normal viscosity, but about Idemitsu TLS I am not so sure is synthetic... Plus it's not even red dyed, is amber!
People keep using LV in place of normal viscosity because... I don't know why. I am tempted to switch my WS to T-IV just because that is what was specified initially for my transmission, and the transition to WS happen because... fuel economy.
I think AMSOIL makes a synthetic that has normal viscosity, but about Idemitsu TLS I am not so sure is synthetic... Plus it's not even red dyed, is amber!
People keep using LV in place of normal viscosity because... I don't know why. I am tempted to switch my WS to T-IV just because that is what was specified initially for my transmission, and the transition to WS happen because... fuel economy.
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Amsoil does make an LV fluid. They do not yet make a ULV fluid though. my Lexus GS got the amsoil LV stuff (meets the Toyota WS spec) after we bought it (used) and shifting and precision feel improved; it was by no means poor before. The WS felt like it had probably sheared some.
ive run amsoil previously in a WS-spec’d gen 1 tundra for years that saw heavy towing, and found it to be excellent in that application.
im a proponent of the old school numbers. Change at 60 and then at every 30.
ive run amsoil previously in a WS-spec’d gen 1 tundra for years that saw heavy towing, and found it to be excellent in that application.
im a proponent of the old school numbers. Change at 60 and then at every 30.
D
Deleted member 89374
Did you do a complete flush, or just a drain and fill?
How could you tell?
I think it's an even better idea to do a DYI flush (3 times drain and fill) at 30,000 to 35,000 miles to get all the "break-in" materials out, and then you can do a drain and fill every 30K miles.
235,000 miles on the PreRunner currently.
It got its first transmission fluid exchange, using Toyota WS, at 100K, then, its 2nd at 200K.
It’ll have its 3rd at 300K.
It got its first transmission fluid exchange, using Toyota WS, at 100K, then, its 2nd at 200K.
It’ll have its 3rd at 300K.
Drain and fill, or full exchange?
Doing a spill and fill service seems prudent with these transmissions.
60k is fine. My escape had dark fluid at 55k, I had my indy shop spill and fill with Valvoline LV fluid. $120 service no problem.
$120 is nothing compared to rebuild.
60k is fine. My escape had dark fluid at 55k, I had my indy shop spill and fill with Valvoline LV fluid. $120 service no problem.
$120 is nothing compared to rebuild.
Zee09
$200 Site Donor 2023
I believe in OEM cvt trans fluid only.
You avoid a bunch of nonsense by doing so.
You avoid a bunch of nonsense by doing so.
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2014
- Messages
- 4,118
You eitther maintain the transmission's ATF or you don't.
Lifetime depends on driving style. You drive until it fails... for some people, could be a day after the warranty expires... and for others, could be a million miles.
I prefer the better shift quality of fresh fluid. So, I drain/refill every couple years. And, after every drain/refill, EVERY automatic transmission that I've owned always shifted better. Don't care how long the transmission lasts. Do care that the transmission feels great always.
You reap what you sow with maintenance.
Lifetime depends on driving style. You drive until it fails... for some people, could be a day after the warranty expires... and for others, could be a million miles.
I prefer the better shift quality of fresh fluid. So, I drain/refill every couple years. And, after every drain/refill, EVERY automatic transmission that I've owned always shifted better. Don't care how long the transmission lasts. Do care that the transmission feels great always.
You reap what you sow with maintenance.
Full exchange via cooler line.
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