Lexus Toyota "Lifetime ATF" - baloney

Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Messages
18,873
Location
Los Gatos, CA
Lexus/Toyota claims lifetime fluid in many of their transmissions. Our 2013 GS (77K) does not have a transmission service interval (but I think there is one for other countries, just not US). I believe Aisin, who makes the transmissions, has a 60K interval.

Anyways, I just had this service done yesterday. I was gonna do it myself, but had to take it to a shop (top notch) for a suspension clunk.
I gave them the Lexus screen filter and Idemitsu WS equivalent fluid I had purchased.
I am pretty sure the existing fluid was the original factory fill.

Results? All I can say is do it. The fluid was worn, somewhat discolored but not burned.
The car definitely pulls stronger. Shifts were not bad before, but are smoother and better overall.
This also may be due to the superiority of the Idemitsu full synthetic trans fluid versus the Toyota WS.
Again, I am 100% satisfied and convinced a transmission fluid service is the way to go.
There is also piece of mind in that the break in material has been removed.

I will do a spill and fill in a week or so and call it done for the next 30K miles.
I should have done this when I first got the car.
 
I'm of two minds on this. Our 2010 Sienna has over 220k on the original fluid and still shifts well, just as when we bought it at 12k. Dipstick inspections show that it looks to be in decent shape - not burned or discolored. I'm not too concerned about it considering how well it shifts.
But I did change the 2012 Camry's fluid out at 60k just for peace of mind; I had a hard time finding a place that even wanted to or was willing to do it, but ended up finding a Toyota dealer that did an exchange for $180 or so. Did that make me feel better? Yeah, but for most people, the lifetime service is probably fine. Can it possibly be problematic? Sure, but many people run fluid for the life of the car with no issue.
 
I ran into issues with my 17 Subaru with CVT. Same Subaru comments of it's lifetime fluid. Yet none of these guys have a legitimate definition of what "lifetime" means. To me "lifetime" is about 200-250k when I'm probably not wanting the vehicle anymore even if it's a ok. To some it's 300k others 100k. IMHO auto manufacturer's definition of lifetime is 3-5 years at about 45k to 60k miles and trade-in time.
 
My 03 Matrix uses Castrol IMV and do a drain and fill every 20k miles or so. 4 qrts is about $20 and just as easy as an oil change. 19 Sorento gets a d/r every 30k miles. Easy and trans fluid is cheap insurance. And it gives me another reason for another beer.
 
MB and BMW started this big BS and Toyota followed this cheap marketing stunt alongwith so called thin economy ATF aka WS ATF thats nothing but thinned out Dexron IV and ironically with a mineral base which deteriorates in under 50k and earlier if pushed hard. ZF engineers disagreed and demonstrated at at an auto show the effects of labeling an ATF fluid as lifetime, biggest BS around.

Thats why I do a full flush every 50k with AISIN AFW+ WS compatible fully synthetic ATF oil and I also have a Hayden 679 transmission cooler installed along with a Magnefine inline filter. Keeps my transmission singing in my FJ Cruiser.
 
I'm sure my car would have soldiered on without a service.
But is sure feels better now. It pulls stronger, no question.
It ALMOST feels like a new car, at least pulling onto a local freeway from a rolling start to 80 mph. Real quick, pulling hard all the way.
I have always been a proponent of early fluid changes, including transmission fluid. So good on you for having it changed out. Having said that, changing out the transmission fluid shouldn't have any significant effect on the speed at which your car accelerates, or "pulls hard".
 
I wish vehicles had removable inspection pans or at least a section, and drain bolts on the torque-converters. Many years ago some cars had drain bolts on the torque-converter. It certainly would make doing a complete drain and fill much easier. Now days you have to do multiples with driving in-between to mix the old with new, and you are still left with some of the old.
 
I have always been a proponent of early fluid changes, including transmission fluid. So good on you for having it changed out. Having said that, changing out the transmission fluid shouldn't have any significant effect on the speed at which your car accelerates, or "pulls hard".
I have noticed better torque after a service numerous times.
 
The shift feel with a clean new oil is always superior and maybe that leads to the perception of improved power and torque when its just better delivery. With good oil and a oil cooler I have noticed the shift quality stay consistent unlike one without an external cooler and just depending on the built in one in radiator. This is specially noticeable during heavy traffic drive in a hot day or doing sands.
 
We have six Toyotas in our family. 5 of the 6 have had some form of transmission service. 4 with Maxlife and my Tacoma with WS....under warranty until 125k.

The 6th vehicle....'19 Corolla only has 20k miles on it. So it hasn't been touched yet
 
I ran into issues with my 17 Subaru with CVT. Same Subaru comments of it's lifetime fluid. Yet none of these guys have a legitimate definition of what "lifetime" means. To me "lifetime" is about 200-250k when I'm probably not wanting the vehicle anymore even if it's a ok. To some it's 300k others 100k. IMHO auto manufacturer's definition of lifetime is 3-5 years at about 45k to 60k miles and trade-in time.
And this is the issue, the definition of "lifetime".

To many, a vehicle is a disposable thing, and 100,000 miles (or at whatever timeframe they pay it off) is when they think it is time to get rid of it.
So for them, it is a lifetime fluid.

For many here, 200,000+ miles is what is expected, and using the same ATF for that entire time is not something that will work for most transmissions.

$20-30 every few years for a drain and fill will add years to a transmission if started early, so well worth the peace of mind IMO.
 
One thing that's important to remember is that Toyota has never actually said don't change the fluid. They say "under normal driving, fluid change is not necessary". That's different than "never change it".

If you operate your vehicle under "severe duty" situations...heavy towing, hauling, short-tripping, stop-and-go.....or you've purchased a used vehicle whose service history is tough to determine....then I think it's prudent to service the transmission.

When I bought the Yaris 3 years ago for my daughter the 1st thing I did was change the oil. The 2nd thing....service the transmission.

20180126_222004.jpg
 
Back
Top